The Airplane Thread

[Llarry]

The English Electric Canberra was a very early jet bomber with origins in the 1940s. It proved to have excellent performance and was the first jet aircraft to cross the Atlantic Ocean. It also had an unusually high ceiling and that served it well in the reconnaissance role. The RAF did not retire the Canberra PR.9 recon aircraft until 2006.

Production was just over a thousand, including a few built in Australia. The Canberra enjoyed considerable export success and was used by a number of air forces.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Electric_Canberra

The aircraft was also the progenitor of the American Martin B-57 bomber (not pictured). Several highly modified B-57s continue to fly today in the high-altitude role with the U.S. NASA.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

One of my favorite war movie is Flight of the Intruder. It had some funny moments but a sad ending.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Intruder

For 11 years, EA-6B Prowler held the distinction of being the only dedicated aerial radar jamming platform when EF-111 Raven was retired in 1998. The availability of the EA-6Bs often dictated whether a strike mission would be approved.

EA-6A Electric first entered service in 1966 followed by EA-18G Growler in 2009.

Remarkable service of 43 years - almost half a century.

[Llarry]

The EF-111A Raven or "Spark 'Vark" was a result of the U.S. Air Force's desire for a replacement of older EB-66 and EB-57 electronic warfare (EW) aircraft. The USAF was impressed by the capabilities of the EA-6B Prowler, but wanted a supersonic EW aircraft.

The solution was the EF-111A, which converted General Dynamics F-111A strike aircraft into an EW variant. The USAF turned to EA-6B manufacturer Grumman for the job. The EW system was repackaged, as the -111 had a crew of only two compared to the EA-6B's four crew members. 42 aircraft were converted, and the highest priority given to equipping the 42nd Electronic Combat Squadron, based at RAF Upper Heyford in the UK. The 42nd would help stem the Soviet onslaught in the event that the Cold War turned hot in Europe. The EF-111A became operational in 1983.

After the end of the Cold War, the EF-111As were withdrawn from the UK to the USA. They played an important role in the Gulf War of 1991; even the F-117A stealth fighter could be detected by certain radars under certain conditions and the F-117A's success in the war was partly due to the extensive use of decoys and the jamming of Iraqi radars by EW aircraft.

While the Navy's EA-6Bs were armed in the mid-1980s with the AGM-88 HARM radar-homing missile, the EF-111A was never given that capability.

The retirement of the F-111 Aardvark fighter in the 1990s made support of the EF-111A force difficult and the Air Force retired the type in 1998 without direct replacement.

In an effort to maintain capability in the realm of EW, the USAF established the 390th Electronic Combat Squadron at the Naval Air Station Whidbey Island, Washington. The 390th provided crews for Navy EA-6Bs and when the EA-6Bs were replaced by EA-18G Growlers, continued that arrangement.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genera..._EF-111A_Raven

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Llarry

The Bell P-39 Airacobra first flew in 1938 and was numerous in the Pacific theatre in the first half of World War II. Its record was not very distinguished, and it was kept out of the European theatre due to poor performance at the higher altitudes common there. But the large number of P-39s built reflects the truism that wars are fought with what you have, not what you wish you had or will have in the future. By mid-1944, the P-39 was out of production.

The P-39's layout was unusual: The engine was right behind the pilot seat with a driveshaft going forward to drive the propellor.


While the P-39 was unloved, it led to an improved design, the Bell P-63 King Cobra. The P-63 was better in most respects, but still lacked the high-altitude capability desired for combat over Europe. Most P-63s -- over 2,000 -- were transferred to the USSR under Lend-Lease. Some were retained by the U.S. as so-called "Pinball" aircraft: given extra armor and vivid paint jobs and used as manned targets for aerial gunnery.

But the Russians *loved* them in WWII as they used them as "can openers" (i.e. tank killers) at low altitude with great success.

[flybigjet]

Originally Posted by Llarry

The English Electric Canberra was a very early jet bomber with origins in the 1940s. It proved to have excellent performance and was the first jet aircraft to cross the Atlantic Ocean. It also had an unusually high ceiling and that served it well in the reconnaissance role. The RAF did not retire the Canberra PR.9 recon aircraft until 2006.

Production was just over a thousand, including a few built in Australia. The Canberra enjoyed considerable export success and was used by a number of air forces.

The aircraft was also the progenitor of the American Martin B-57 bomber (not pictured). Several highly modified B-57s continue to fly today in the high-altitude role with the U.S. NASA.

They were nicknamed "Cranberries" and iirc about 20 or so were modified to R/WB-57's. They used an extra-long wing (>120') for high-altitude weather and nuclear reconnaissance and could make it up to about 70,000'.

When I was a kid in Japan in the early '70's they would launch the long-wing Cranberries to fly at super-high altitude to "sniff" the air after Soviet nuclear weapons tests. They would land at Yokota hotter than hell (radioactively speaking) and would park at a remote site on the airfield. There, they'd be scrubbed down repeatedly to decontaminate them-- only then could the pilot and payload be removed. This was how we kept tabs on the Soviet nuclear weapons program.

R.

[Llarry]

F-4 Phantoms -- lots of Phantoms -- at the boneyard in Arizona. I suspect this is an old photo -- many Phantoms were turned into QF-4 unmanned target aircraft.

[Llarry]

Loading bombs on a B-52 external rack. Looks like an old photo; perhaps even Vietnam war-era B-52D? The top photo shows 500- or 1,000-pounders and the bottom photo shows 750-pound bombs. In either case, somebody is going to be in a world of hurt.

[M-technik-3]

Friend of mine works with this project and a few others, I can remember seeing these at Bagram back in 2012 time frame they were being used in conjunction with USAF for intel and science.

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

Friend of mine works with this project and a few others, I can remember seeing these at Bagram back in 2012 time frame they were being used in conjunction with USAF for intel and science.

Quite the difference between the old and new engines.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

\ Friend of mine works with this project and a few others, I can remember seeing these at Bagram back in 2012 time frame they were being used in conjunction with USAF for intel and science.

I'm pretty sure that should be... USAF for intel and "science".

It is interesting that the NASA WB-57Fs sometimes get loaned back to the original owner for non-science purposes. NASA uses them for science.

[Llarry]

The prototype F-14A first flew on December 21, 1970. On its second flight nine days later, both hydraulic systems failed when on approach to landing and the aircraft crashed. Quite an inauspicious beginning for an aircraft that went on to a long and glorious career. The second F-14A flew on May 24, 1971, and the test flight program started in earnest. I've seen video of the two crew members ejecting at low level on that disastrous December 30 flight. Here's a photo of F-14A number one on rollout before it took to the air.

[JJ 911SC]

The F-14 Tomcat was in the run to replace a fleet made up of CF-101 Voodoo, CF-104 Starfighter and CF-116 Freedom Fighter aircrafts but in the end the F-18 won.

Adrienne Clarkson looks at the search for a replacement for Canada’s aging fighter jet fleet in the late 1970s. The Canadian Forces had been looking for one aircraft to replace its collection of CF-101 Voodoo, CF-104 Starfighter and CF-116 Freedom Fighter aircraft. For a planned purchase cost of almost $2.5 billion the air force had narrowed down its possible selection to the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F-18 Hornet, Mirage F1 and the European made Tornado.

In 1980 the Canadian Forces announced the decision to purchase 138 F-18s from McDonnell Douglas.

21 minutes long but...

[Lady Jane]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

In 1980 the Canadian Forces announced the decision to purchase 138 F-18s from McDonnell Douglas.

I may have mentioned that before. According to my dad who was hired after his retirement from the RCAF as a test pilot/engineer by McD Douglas, the decision to purchase the CF-18 was purely political. More planes for the taxpayers bucks instead of actual operational requirements.

The F-18 was essentially a Navy Carrier plane used to fly in warm weather and not the Canadian Arctic. Many pilots almost lost control of the airplane due to hypoxia because the chest mounted regulator would freeze. If you think that it would be an easy fix, you would be wrong. There is not much real estate in the cockpit to move things around and there were also a host of other incompatible issues that ended up costing the taxpayers a lot more than the other tenders. But it did look good...on paper.

The future of the RCAF's mandate will be interesting with the arrival of the F-35. At least the Government finally decided not to buy the Australian's used Hornets. Canada has a bad historical habit of buying crap from other countries.

[JJ 911SC]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

... the decision to purchase the CF-18 was purely political...

Just like the cancellation of the Avro Arrow by the idiotic Prime Minister Diefenbaker...

For those who knows Canadian politic, imagine that; the Liberal (Democrat) had started the program and the Conservator (Republican) cancelled it

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia....cle/avro-arrow

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

The F-14 Tomcat was in the run to replace a fleet made up of CF-101 Voodoo, CF-104 Starfighter and CF-116 Freedom Fighter aircrafts but in the end the F-18 won.

Adrienne Clarkson looks at the search for a replacement for Canada’s aging fighter jet fleet in the late 1970s. The Canadian Forces had been looking for one aircraft to replace its collection of CF-101 Voodoo, CF-104 Starfighter and CF-116 Freedom Fighter aircraft. For a planned purchase cost of almost $2.5 billion the air force had narrowed down its possible selection to the F-14 Tomcat, F-15 Eagle, F-16 Fighting Falcon, F-18 Hornet, Mirage F1 and the European made Tornado.

In 1980 the Canadian Forces announced the decision to purchase 138 F-18s from McDonnell Douglas.

I haven't watched the video; will do so when my wife is not watching a movie. But my initial take -- taking into consideration the factors of the late 1970s -- would be:
-- F-14 Tomcat: Too expensive, TF30 engine problems, strictly air-to-air capability -- it wasn't until later that the modifications were made to give the F-14 strike capabilities.
-- F-15 Eagle: Too expensive, but otherwise a worthy choice. Limited strike capabilities at the time, though.
-- F-16 Viper: A good choice. The single-engine configuration may have worked against it, though.
-- F-18 Hornet: Another good choice, LJ's comments on the oxygen regulator notwithstanding. (Any of the aircraft could've had some problems in the cold temps of N. Canada.) Not quite the speed capability of the three above U.S. fighters.
-- Mirage F1: I am not as familiar with the Mirage F1 as the others. Again, a single engine fighter.
-- Tornado: Presumably the IDS strike variant, which would have somewhat limited air-to-air capabilities. Or perhaps a mix of the IDS variant for strike and the ADV variant for interception. The Tornado ADV had excellent performance but limited endurance/range. The thrust-reversing feature would be valuable on icy runways.

Edit: I watched the video and it was a decent summary of most of the pros and cons of each. The industrial offset aspect is something I know little about but was no doubt very important in the final decision. I don't think the video changed my opinions as stated above. Modern turbofan engines have become very reliable and, in my opinion, single-engine fighter operations in remote areas or overwater are not a major issue.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by JJ 911SC

Quote:

Just like the cancellation of the Avro Arrow by the idiotic Prime Minister Diefenbaker...

I know the cancellation of the Arrow still strikes a nerve all these many years later, but I would offer that the Arrow was far too expensive for Canadian taxpayers at the time. As an aviation enthusiast, I mourn the loss of one of the most awesome fighters of all time. Yet it is my observation from here that Canadian governments -- and by extension Canadian taxpayers -- appear unwilling to buy a robust defence capability. See, for example, the dithering on the F-35 buy and no doubt many more examples over the years. Respectfully submitted for your consideration...

[Llarry]

Reports indicate that the Chinese PLA Air Force now has over 200 Chengdu J-20 advanced fighters. At the same time, the old J-7 (a development of the 1950s MiG-21) is disappearing from active service at a rapid clip.

The J-20 is a large fighter with almost the empty and gross weight of an American F-22A Raptor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chengdu_J-20

[3798j]

on the backlot...Gloster Meteor

[M-technik-3]

Mom used to own an Austin Marina like that. She drove it home from work in the Blizzard of 78 on 13" tiny Michelins and never got stuck. Amazed she made it home as in the morning it was buried to roof in snow.

Oh how do you test drive the Meteor?

[Lady Jane]

Long haul crew in an Airbus A-350.

[Llarry]

In the early 1960s, photographic reconnaissance in the Navy and the Marines consisted of:
-- A small number of large Navy RA-3B Skywarriors that were almost entirely land-based.
-- Vought RF-8A photo Crusaders that served in both Navy carrier-based and Marine Corps land-based recce squadrons. Navy RF-8As played a role in the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962, flying low-level missions (along with their Air Force counterparts) over Cuba to monitor the situation.

The Air Force was starting to buy the Navy F-4 Phantom in large numbers and paid to develop an unarmed recce version, the RF-4C. The Marines, looking for an upgrade from the simpler RF-8A, took advantage of this development by buying 46 RF-4B recce Phantoms for the Corps which entered service in the mid-1960s.

The Navy stuck with the photo Crusader but upgraded it with a more powerful engine and other refinements and deployed the resulting RF-8Gs aboard aircraft carriers in small detachments. At the same time, the Navy bought large (and expensive) RA-5C Vigilante carrier-based reconnaissance/attack aircraft and deployed them on the larger carriers.

All of these photo birds were soon active over Vietnam: general recce, pre-strike photo runs and post-strike damage assessment runs kept Navy and Marine photo aircraft (as well as their Air Force RF-101 and RF-4C brethren) busy during the war.

The Marines stuck with their RF-4Bs throughout. Inevitably, there were accidents and combat losses and the small number of photo Phantoms dwindled. The Marines kept all they could in the air by borrowing parts from Air Force RF-4C stocks at the boneyard once the USAF started retiring aircraft after the 1970s, and the RF-4B had an unusually long service life, serving into the 1990s. Some of the aging photo Phantoms got new ex-USAF wings or noses. After the Navy RF-8G and RA-5C were retired in the late 1970s, the Marines briefly supplied small detachments of RF-4Bs for the USS Midway, finally seeing aircraft carrier service for a few years.

In the end, all of the dedicated photo recce aircraft were retired without replacement and photo recon was accomplished using pods on fighter aircraft such as the F-14 and F-18.

[Llarry]

In the 1980s, the concept of stealth came into its own. The highly-classified F-117A stealth fighter became operational and aircraft manufacturers were pursuing other low-observable designs.

The workhorse Navy/Marine attack Grumman A-6 Intruder was getting long in the tooth and planning began for a replacement. For an attack aircraft, stealth was a natural.

The result was the last Navy/Marine attack aircraft to be contracted: The McDonnell Douglas A-12 Avenger II. The A-12 was to be a two-place low-observable subsonic medium attack aircraft that took the A-6 attributes to the next level. The Navy wanted 620 (with 20 aircraft in two squadrons aboard each aircraft carrier) and the Marine Corps wanted 238. Even the Air Force expressed interest in buying 400 A-12s to replace the F-111 Aardvark force. The delta shape of the aircraft resulted in a moniker of "Flying Dorito" for the A-12.

First flight was scheduled for 1992, but the program soon ran into difficulties: Overweight, which was critical for carrier use as well as general performance -- and with substantial cost increases. In the end, the issues were too difficult, and the program was cancelled in January 1991. Years of finger-pointing and lawsuits ensued as to whether the fault for the failure was the government's or the contractor's.

Few aircraft components were actually manufactured, and the mockup was the only physical product left in the end.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonn...-12_Avenger_II