Pure Electric M Cars are Eventuality Says BMW M CEO, But Hybridization Comes First

[Fundguy1]

Or the motors are cherry hot. Tesla didn't do so hot on the Nuremberg.

[Fundguy1]

Not a production or tesla. Whats your point? It wouldnt do that all day on the road. Its a dedicated track car.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Not a production or tesla. Whats your point? It wouldnt do that all day on the road. Its a dedicated track car.

It's not designed for track use, you may have to get over this
If Tesla intended that, they'd take different approach
Maybe next roadster...
Tesla's goal to get everyone off the fossil fuels, let others create track cars
I'm pretty sure S-class owners dont take their MBs to road course either

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

It's not designed for track use, you may have to get over this
If Tesla intended that, they'd take different approach
Maybe next roadster...
Tesla's goal to get everyone off the fossil fuels, let others create track cars
I'm pretty sure S-class owners dont take their MBs to road course either

But the whole point of this post is replacing the track version with an ev. And I daily drive mine harder than most track cars are driven.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

But the whole point of this post is replacing the track version with an ev. And I daily drive mine harder than most track cars are driven.

Agreed. BMW should make one.
If Tesla didn't take that approach, doesn't mean the BMW will fail
Tesla designed large family car that can seat seven people and lots of cargo. M5 should be just M5

[Fundguy1]

Ughhh. Not agreed. We just stated currently its impossible and its highly unlikely in the next decade. And that's being extremely generous. I don't see it being equal to an ICE for 20 yrs from a let's be real here standpoint.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Model 3 doesnt exist yet

Its vapor ware.....

Its also got an announced/expected range of 215 miles

Its NOT a sports car......this whole thread revolves around feasibility of EV, Hybrid integration with M

How many laps can the boutique car you posted about do at that speed before it needs to be recharged and how long will it take to recharge?

You guys are hilarious
You just dispute anything, even the obvious.
Apparently you have an inside and know more than everybody else does regarding model 3

It was announced with the range of 215, but that doesn't mean that it's really going to be that. Bolt has 238, so they have to do at least similar or better. 200 is still plenty IMHO

When this thing comes out end of this year, there will be quite a few disappointments in luxury makers sales

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

You guys are hilarious
You just dispute anything, even the obvious.
Apparently you have an inside and know more than everybody else does regarding model 3

It was announced with the range of 215, but that doesn't mean that it's really going to be that. Bolt has 238, so they have to do at least similar or better. 200 is still plenty

200 plenty for who? I'd have to charge 3 times a day.

[Teutonic]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

I only spend 30-40 min max when on the road trip
No Tesla owners would be wasting time to top it off to 100%

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

If i take few trips a year and spend few hours to charge, that's fine.
You spend 5-7min per week = 5 hours a year no matter what

Oh man, you are comical. So, for us 5 hours per year is a big deal, for you few hours to charge is fine.

In conformity with tesla Canada ( https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/models-charging#/onthego ) on Supercharge mode you get around 270 km. (Lots of advertising too). And that one in the perfect temperature.
For me, I fill in 5 minutes and drive 800 km.
For you, you Supercharge (not normal charge for the cells) of 30 minutes gives you 270 km. At minus 30C the situation is changing bad for you and if you are stuck in a storm with others, you might die in that fancy appliance with wheels. Keep in mind, my engine is hot anyway, you are using power to heat.

You are continuing to annoy us with your time spent in the house while you are charging. So, you are charging the vehicle at home only? It is a town vehicle only? Because the situation changes outside: You stay in line to charge (is already happening in my town, and I saw them in an underground parking waiting to charge). If it is a city vehicle only why you bought a 5 seater with a trunk?

Please read Car and Driver (I think Nov issue), there is already an article of one of the editors about other people hunting the charging station he was using with a test car.

Your logic is selective in a very biased way. Not reality, just what you want to hear.

Tesla doesn't want everybody out of fossils. Tesla wants money. That's it.

Let me tell you just one very important thing: your car is not healthy! You are not using wireless phones at home, but you are sitting at least one hour a day on top of a chemical battery and bombarded by EMF. Go and do some tests of tissue and bone density and redo them 10 years later. Do not believe me; believe your government and Elon, they really care about you (and your money).

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

No but i can fill up mid day at a gas station without having to search for a plug and sit for an hour to get home. I cover a territory. Southern half of Florida. Some places are 300 miles or more away. To close to fly. So you drive. Up at 4 am for a 9 am meeting, home at 10 pm.

Yeah...Ouch. Sorry to hear that. Frankly if I'm spending more than 8 hours a day driving, I'd rather make less and do something else. No offense to commercial truck drivers of course, but if that's what they do, so be it. Can't fathom myself spending that much time in a car.

You don't do THAT kind of driving and miles in a BMW, do you? I assume you drive something a little cushier? Not one that "breaks the rear wheels loose" at 70mph?

I am going to point this out though. An EV for you makes about as much sense as an EV for a commercial truck driver. But the day may yet still come where America's commercial fleet are driven by electric motors rather than diesels, and those days may come pretty soon.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Tracus

Funny, these statements are put on a BMW forum.
The new luxury? For you maybe. Tesla does not sit close to a 5 Series in anything. The fact that you pay that amount for electric motors and a battery, is your problem. They will provide you anytime, refurbished parts.

Anyway, happy to hear that you are a SIGNIFICANTLY successful and not an average 'Murican. Your lack in diplomacy, respect and class proves it. So the vocabulary used on previous posts. Don't bother to reply. I will ignore your comments.

Wah wah wah! I can't dispute or discuss in civilized manner, and my argument is weak! I'm going to take my ball and go home!

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Can you at least have the courtesy of looking at the thread topic and my response?

Thread topic pertains to M cars

My response pertains to M/Sports cars and whether or not an EV satisfies MY needs/desires and whether EV's can compete in price, performance/etc with current CI/ICE sports cars

They cannot.

Whether they WILL be able to compete at some future date is purely speculative

BTW.....that Fiat has to be the butt ugliest car offered for sale currently....uglier than the "Smart" car if thats possible......you've got balls to drive it........looks like there's room for improvement on safety as well

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-au...A0L24W20140122

LOL. Sure. Make fun of how ugly my car is. Obviously you can't logically defend your position thus defame my "choice" of vehicles.

I'm not going to lie. I didn't buy the Fiat for its looks. I "bought" it because a bunch of racer friends in Northern California negotiated a group buy on the Fiat for $80/mo on a lease. I figured, based on my driving and commute, I spend about $250-300 a month on gas, so why not lease it and drive it to the ground? I'd save about $150 a month at least.

Well, even with the depressed gas prices I'm still saving about $100 a month, but driving the Fiat gave me a brand new perspective on EVs. It did so much that I ended up leasing an i3 (big mistake. I can't stand the i3).

As for safety...I always contend that the BEST safety equipment in a car, is the nut that drives it. I've spent the last 15+ years honing my skills on various race tracks, enough so that I feel confident that any car I am driving is probably far safer than 99% of the car I share a road with. So frankly any modern car with a non-Takata airbag is pretty safe in my hands.

To the matter at hand. As of today, EVs can't really compete on performance ON TRACK to ICE vehicles. I've said so on an earlier reply, that I've seen/driven a Tesla on California Speedway, and after a 20 minute session it would completely drain the battery and it takes about 3-5 hours before you can attempt another run at it.

However.

While it's running, it will run CIRCLES around most BMW offers. Even the M5. That power delivery is insane. The low center of gravity is insane. Anyone telling you that EVs of today can't compare to ICE in performance? Bull. The Model S has Lotus tuned suspension and for a big, heavy car, it handles the curves as well if not better than most BMW. Heck it will likely give a base Porsche a run for its money in the right hands.

For 20 minutes (roughly 20-25 miles).

So no, eventually the Tesla will run out of charge and even a Camry will pass it on the track. If that's your standard of performance, and it is MY standard, no, as of today, this moment, as we speak, EV and battery technology is not on par with ICE.

But give it 5 years. The rate that battery technology is advancing, there's no way that ICE can continue to innovate at the same rate. In 5 years that same Tesla (or whatever EV) will be faster on track AND last longer than a ICE vehicle, because battery technology is evolving THAT fast. And in 10 years charging infrastructure will have caught up as well. Just look at how quickly charging infrastructures are being built and put in place all around the world in 4.5 years since Model S popularized EVs. 3 years ago I wouldn't dream of taking a Tesla to San Fran from So Cal. Today? I wouldn't bat an eyelash (plenty of supercharger stations along the way).

And while the rest of the rural 'Murica will likely not see the fruit of this particular labor, quite frankly, EVs are not designed for Rural 'Murica consumption anyway. If I lived and worked in the Mid West? I'd go drive my diesel Chevy pickup with my gun rack all day long. No reason whatsoever for me to bother with EVs, and I'm fine with that. As of right now, EVs are pretty much confined to the two coasts and that's just a fact of life.

But the game changer will be, WHEN the commercial truck industry start adapting EVs, and they will, because on that scale the cost savings can not be ignored. I foresee the commercial trucking industry to go driverless and EV within 20 years. When that happens, the entire country will need to be on an effective charging grid, then this entire discussion is moot. You all would go the way of the "manual transmission will never die" crowd like I was 5 years ago and be ashamed to admit you were wrong (5 years ago I was ADAMANT that manuals will never die. At this point, I can't help but concede that manual transmission is on its way to a long, slow, and painful death).

[The HACK]

So I'm going to end my participation in this thread with this.

Some of you guys are saying what is NOW as the EV market can't compete with ICE autos. And to that point, that IS correct. As of right now there are some short comings of EVs that can not be ignored.

But the thread title seems to suggest that EVENTUALLY EVs will be a better platform for performance applications, and that I agree with 100%. I've seen first hand how quickly an industry can innovate (IT/tech), and it used to be said that a computer CPU basically doubles its computing power within 2 years (Moore's law). Just from the period when Tesla's first car came on the road (The Roadster) to the introduction of the Model S, to each subsequent model and updates, it appears EV technology is nearly doubling in performance, range and efficiency now in nearly 2 year cycles just like computers, while for ICE applications are taking about 20 years to double in efficiency.

So really guys. Hold on to your ICE as long as you can, like I'm holding on to my manual transmission'ed M car. Because if EV can convert someone like me, who lives on speed and performance on track, who spent more $$$ in a single year than he spent on his child on working on various parts to make his ICE car go faster, who for a long time swore that he would NEVER drive a golf cart on steroids, to an ardent supporter of the electric future?

Resistance is futile.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by The HACK

LOL. Sure. Make fun of how ugly my car is. Obviously you can't logically defend your position thus defame my "choice" of vehicles.

LOL

I TRIED to give you credit for having the nads to drive THE UGLIEST car on the market.....really. I did.

I dont know how to get past the fact that its a fiat 500......the Ford Pinto and AMC Gremlin were better looking cars that that fiat.....

If you said anything past "Fiat 500" I honestly didnt read it

All in good humored fun of course......I dont know if your "Man" card should be revoked or if you deserve TWO man cards for having the nads to drive that thing in publc

I have no doubt that its a wonderfully practical economical car......but its still a Fiat 500 and this is a thread about whether M cars will ever see EV/Partial EV

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by The HACK

So I'm going to end my participation in this thread with this.

Some of you guys are saying what is NOW as the EV market can't compete with ICE autos. And to that point, that IS correct.

/thread

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by AndreyATC

You guys are hilarious
You just dispute anything, even the obvious.
Apparently you have an inside and know more than everybody else does regarding model 3

Yes, we have a secret inside edge.....dont tell anyone but its called the Internet

https://www.tesla.com/model3

Delivery estimates are sometime in mid 2018

More vapor ware

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by jpnh

I dont know if your "Man" card should be revoked or if you deserve TWO man cards for having the nads to drive that thing in publc

I drive an MZ4 Coupe. There are only three other BMWs ever built that can be considered more "manly" than that car. 3.5 if you consider the McLaren F1 as a "BMW." If I don't drive the 500e I'd exude so much manliness that even guys would swoon in my presence and most women would spontaneously combust from orgasmic glow. I'd rather not unleash that on this world. There's a decline in birth rate and frankly I don't want to be responsible for the end of Western civilization as we know it.

So y'all should thank me for taking one for the "team."

[Fundguy1]

Guys, its not a computer, its a car. Moores law doesn't apply. If it did it would be a 0-300 in 2 seconds car with a range of 2000 miles in 10 years. Hello. Its a power system, not a computer chip or programming. Its a physical mass, not a VR car. Can it eventually beat an ice? Maybe. Will it overcome all its shortcomings? Possibly. Someone else mentioned the tech of fuel cells. That was progressing same speed. Now its been stuck for 25 yrs because the tech hit a brick wall. What are you guys going to program or what chip are you going to add to make a battery or an electric motor more efficient? Those have been around for hundreds of years and its still not there. Why do you think anything will be different in 2 or 3? Because a marketing guy said so, so jhe could collect hundreds of millions of dollars for a car that isn't even built? Sounds more Bernie Madoff than Henry Ford.

[jpnh]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I drive an MZ4 Coupe. There are only three other BMWs ever built that can be considered more "manly" than that car. 3.5 if you consider the McLaren F1 as a "BMW." If I don't drive the 500e I'd exude so much manliness that even guys would swoon in my presence and most women would spontaneously combust from orgasmic glow. I'd rather not unleash that on this world. There's a decline in birth rate and frankly I don't want to be responsible for the end of Western civilization as we know it.

So y'all should thank me for taking one for the "team."

It sounds like there should have been a line in your previous post that said something like

"The name's Bond, James Bond"



But its still a Fiat 500e

[Fundguy1]

Z4m is a fun car, but manly isn't a word I would use for it. Cute maybe. M4, m5, m6, 1m, m2, m1, x5m, etc. All up on the manly scale.

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Whether it CAN be made to work and whether its in use to any degree are two different things

This doesnt even take into consideration the cost

I laugh hysterically when a buddy of mine brags that his electric bill is zero every months......thats when I ask him how much the monthly payment on the solar panels are costing him and how many years until that loan is paid off........thats the moment I get the dirty look and he gets all butt hurt.....reality sucks eh?

My monthly loan payment is $240 for 5yrs
I could have paid it out right, but it was cheap money.
Coincidentally my monthly utility payment was about the same. So to me it was no brainer. Either pay 240 for something that I own versus paying to utility company
In couple of years I'll have zero electric bill and zero payments

Not sure what your friend did. Doesn't sound like a good deal

[AndreyATC]

Originally Posted by jpnh

Yes, we have a secret inside edge.....dont tell anyone but its called the Internet

https://www.tesla.com/model3

Delivery estimates are sometime in mid 2018

More vapor ware

Boy, can you at least read more than just last paragraph?
Delivery starts this year. However, new reservations are estimated mid next year. They have to fulfill 400k orders first, remember?

I laugh because you call it vaporware
A bit ignorant...