Buying Property and Building Your Own Home - Tips, Tricks, Advice

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

I must be a gluten for punishment. Even after reading this through, we just put some acres under contract this weekend. Significantly less restrictions than what you have experienced, but stressful all the same.

I have no idea what I’m doing. Whoops.

Congrats! How long is your feasibility study period?

We finally got our infiltration testing done and the results back. In a twist of good luck we somehow got sandy soil instead of glacial till, right where they house will deposit all the runoff from the roof. That shit was draining at 12 inches per hour as opposed to the glacial hill in the driveway area that was only drawing at 2 inches per hour. It’s the first piece of good luck we’ve had on this project.

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Congrats! How long is your feasibility study period?

We finally got our infiltration testing done and the results back. In a twist of good luck we somehow got sandy soil instead of glacial till, right where they house will deposit all the runoff from the roof. That shit was draining at 12 inches per hour as opposed to the glacial hill in the driveway area that was only drawing at 2 inches per hour. It’s the first piece of good luck we’ve had on this project.

Good news is welcomed news with your track record! I still tell people of your middle finger building you built out there

We have 45 days, but the only real “restriction” we have is no mobile homes. I don’t have to get a presidential pardon to cut down a tree or anything like you, so I am certainly optimistic for what we need.

Our goal is to build a shop of sorts with living quarters that we’ll write a check for or have quick terms if financed to be debt free ASAP. From there, squirrel away as best we can to build the permanent residence. We’ll just see how long the interim will last with a stay-at-home mom, two year old, one month old, and me who is home-based for work.

We’re young. YOLO?

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Good news is welcomed news with your track record! I still tell people of your middle finger building you built out there

We have 45 days, but the only real “restriction” we have is no mobile homes. I don’t have to get a presidential pardon to cut down a tree or anything like you, so I am certainly optimistic for what we need.

Our goal is to build a shop of sorts with living quarters that we’ll write a check for or have quick terms if financed to be debt free ASAP. From there, squirrel away as best we can to build the permanent residence. We’ll just see how long the interim will last with a stay-at-home mom, two year old, one month old, and me who is home-based for work.

We’re young. YOLO?

Barndominium?? I love me a nice barndominium!

[Bc2005]

When we built an addition there was a requirement that footings had to be poured on “undisturbed soil” so they could limit/prevent new building on landfill areas. The guy that assessed the footing base used a long pole with what looked like a tin can on the end, with the lid partially cut at an angle so he could use it to scoop out soil.

He walked up to the excavation, used the “can” on a pole to push down and take a scoop of soil from where the footings were going in, and then held it up to his face and “assessed” the soil. Based on that analysis he filled out the engineering assessment (in pencil) and declared the soil base acceptable for our footings. We then paid him $400 (IIRC) for his work. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

[W Cole]

Originally Posted by Bc2005

When we built an addition there was a requirement that footings had to be poured on “undisturbed soil” so they could limit/prevent new building on landfill areas. The guy that assessed the footing base used a long pole with what looked like a tin can on the end, with the lid partially cut at an angle so he could use it to scoop out soil.

He walked up to the excavation, used the “can” on a pole to push down and take a scoop of soil from where the footings were going in, and then held it up to his face and “assessed” the soil. Based on that analysis he filled out the engineering assessment (in pencil) and declared the soil base acceptable for our footings. We then paid him $400 (IIRC) for his work. Not a bad gig if you can get it.

Are you sure he didn’t stick the long pole into the dirt until refusal to judge the density of the soil? The further the stick goes in the less dense the soil.

The denser the soil the narrower footings you can get away with. You can tell how well the soil is compacted by just driving stakes.

[jsf721]

I swear after going through major Reno’s 2x in my life I’d rather just buy the home I like done !

Maybe I just suck at it ? It’s always way more expensive than planned and I keep thinking of things I
forgot or didn’t know I needed. Change orders are expensive.

[spazzyfry123]

I didn’t realize just how difficult it would be to stake out corners of the proposed house. I just can’t pick where I want it.

If THIS is this difficult, I’m starting to question the whole project

[spazzyfry123]

Checking in DETRoadster how are things coming on the casa?

[MassWholeBimmer]

Recalling over 30 years when I was first looking to build a new house...

I already purchased the land and was looking for a builder for the house.
House I picked out was a Cape style house. 1700 Sq feet on first floor with the master bedroom/bath. 800 square feet on second floor.

Started seeing builders for quotes, and I said don't include prices for:
- Don't finish the up stairs, I'll do that on my own.
- Don't include inside/outside painting as I'll do that on my own.
- Don't include the heating system as I'll do that on my own (buddy owned a hvac company)
- Don't include landscaping as I'll do on my own.

Builders were like.. Screw you...That's half my profit, why don't you build it yourself.

Good question.. So I did (Act as the general contractor.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by MassWholeBimmer

Recalling over 30 years when I was first looking to build a new house...

Started seeing builders for quotes, and I said don't include prices for:
- Don't finish the up stairs, I'll do that on my own.
- Don't include inside/outside painting as I'll do that on my own.
- Don't include the heating system as I'll do that on my own (buddy owned a hvac company)
- Don't include landscaping as I'll do on my own.

You forgot one critical part. The BANK. Most banks will never let you get away with this. You will be forced into a construction loan with a time line to convert to a mortgage. Only work around is to self finance and few can do that.

[MassWholeBimmer]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

You forgot one critical part. The BANK. Most banks will never let you get away with this. You will be forced into a construction loan with a time line to convert to a mortgage. Only work around is to self finance and few can do that.

Maybe true then and now with some/most banks.. But I'm in the house still that I built 33 years ago with me as the general contractor. All worked out.

Ps. Yes, I did get a construction loan, converted into a 30 fixed loan 30 days from closing.

[ASAP]

We're still in the oddest RE market I think i've ever seen in my entire life... yes things have slowed down, but the pressure on prices is nowhere near enough to offset increased interest rates.

Good properties are still selling in good areas... I think the FED and in general the GOVT is still wildly confused by what is going on... frankly, I think everyone still is... because this has never happened before.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Checking in DETRoadster how are things coming on the casa?

Sorry gang, I'm not on here much since selling my M2 and for some reason I'm no longer getting notifications that someone has replied to this thread.

Before I update y'all, I wanted to mention a new service I'm offering, free of charge for BP members who are considering buying property and having a house built. Just DM me and within 48 hours, guaranteed, I will show up at your front door and repeatedly punch you in the dick until you come to your senses. You just gotta cover the flight, but believe me, a last minute flight pales in comparison to the money you will light on fire trying to build a house.

So we are just about to round the 2 year mark on applying for permits to build. Yes, we are STILL in permitting. Meanwhile, while waiting for permits, you all know what has happened to interest rates. At this point, we may not be able to afford to build once the permits finally come through.

The house plans have been approved, no issues with setbacks, or drainage, or any of the other typical bullshit that trips you up. We are down to a single tree that's holding everything up and 3 different government entities that are in a pissing contest with each other over it. Meanwhile, every single person in the city's building and permitting department has quit except for 1 guy. So the backlog of work he's trying to process is now becoming an issue. To say it's a shit show is an understatement.

So this tree is a 55" diameter doug fir that the city considers to be an "exceptional" tree due to its size. The tree is right next to an existing driveway that serves one house as well as our property. The city says the tree cannot be removed or disturbed, including no work (trenching, digging, paving) within the critical root zone of said tree. The county says the driveway needs to be widened to 18 feet from the current 12 to manage the "traffic" that will now be on that driveway because it will serve 2 houses once we build. The fire department says they want it to be 20 feet wide so that they can get a fire truck up there. In order to run our utilities down to the street we need to trench next to the driveway. To widen the driveway we need to strip and pave. All of this is inside the critical root zone of this tree. So we are in a catch-22. County and fire marshal say we have to do work that the city says we are prohibited from doing. Everyone is swinging their little peckers around trying to be the big man and we are stuck in the middle.

Our solution: We did a "traffic survey" of the driveway to demonstrate 2 things: First, that cars at the top of the driveway and at the bottom can see eachother; no chance of a head on collision. Second, that the driveway tops out at a 22 degree slope at the steepest part and thus, the fire engine cant make it up that slope anyway. We then had our arborist and our geotechnical engineer come out and draft a report stating that any disruption to the existing trees along the driveway (they would need to be removed to widen it) would put the hillside at risk of sliding and would be a safety issue.

So our plan is to re-draw our driveway construction plan to add a vehicle turnout mid-way up the driveway and file for a code variance that allows us to demonstrate we can keep things safe without widening the driveway. Then, we submit for a Reasonable Use Exception permit that allows us to trench for utilities in the vicinity of that tree. We will propose the use of an air spade and vactor truck to create the trench by sucking the dirt out as opposed to digging it out. Tat will keep all the roots intact and allow us to maneuver the utilities around them without damage. We will likely have to put up a $50,000 "tree bond" that gets paid back to us $10,000 per year for 5 years so long as the exceptional tree stays alive and healthy. We will need an arborist to inspect it and report on it annually. If it dies, we pay to remove it and then lose our bond.

So, anyone else still thinking about building your dream home? Line up for your punch in the dick!

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Sorry gang, I'm not on here much since selling my M2 and for some reason I'm no longer getting notifications that someone has replied to this thread.

Before I update y'all, I wanted to mention a new service I'm offering, free of charge for BP members who are considering buying property and having a house built. Just DM me and within 48 hours, guaranteed, I will show up at your front door and repeatedly punch you in the dick until you come to your senses. You just gotta cover the flight, but believe me, a last minute flight pales in comparison to the money you will light on fire trying to build a house.

So we are just about to round the 2 year mark on applying for permits to build. Yes, we are STILL in permitting. Meanwhile, while waiting for permits, you all know what has happened to interest rates. At this point, we may not be able to afford to build once the permits finally come through.

The house plans have been approved, no issues with setbacks, or drainage, or any of the other typical bullshit that trips you up. We are down to a single tree that's holding everything up and 3 different government entities that are in a pissing contest with each other over it. Meanwhile, every single person in the city's building and permitting department has quit except for 1 guy. So the backlog of work he's trying to process is now becoming an issue. To say it's a shit show is an understatement.

So this tree is a 55" diameter doug fir that the city considers to be an "exceptional" tree due to its size. The tree is right next to an existing driveway that serves one house as well as our property. The city says the tree cannot be removed or disturbed, including no work (trenching, digging, paving) within the critical root zone of said tree. The county says the driveway needs to be widened to 18 feet from the current 12 to manage the "traffic" that will now be on that driveway because it will serve 2 houses once we build. The fire department says they want it to be 20 feet wide so that they can get a fire truck up there. In order to run our utilities down to the street we need to trench next to the driveway. To widen the driveway we need to strip and pave. All of this is inside the critical root zone of this tree. So we are in a catch-22. County and fire marshal say we have to do work that the city says we are prohibited from doing. Everyone is swinging their little peckers around trying to be the big man and we are stuck in the middle.

Our solution: We did a "traffic survey" of the driveway to demonstrate 2 things: First, that cars at the top of the driveway and at the bottom can see eachother; no chance of a head on collision. Second, that the driveway tops out at a 22 degree slope at the steepest part and thus, the fire engine cant make it up that slope anyway. We then had our arborist and our geotechnical engineer come out and draft a report stating that any disruption to the existing trees along the driveway (they would need to be removed to widen it) would put the hillside at risk of sliding and would be a safety issue.

So our plan is to re-draw our driveway construction plan to add a vehicle turnout mid-way up the driveway and file for a code variance that allows us to demonstrate we can keep things safe without widening the driveway. Then, we submit for a Reasonable Use Exception permit that allows us to trench for utilities in the vicinity of that tree. We will propose the use of an air spade and vactor truck to create the trench by sucking the dirt out as opposed to digging it out. Tat will keep all the roots intact and allow us to maneuver the utilities around them without damage. We will likely have to put up a $50,000 "tree bond" that gets paid back to us $10,000 per year for 5 years so long as the exceptional tree stays alive and healthy. We will need an arborist to inspect it and report on it annually. If it dies, we pay to remove it and then lose our bond.

So, anyone else still thinking about building your dream home? Line up for your punch in the dick!

Sounds worse than my worst nightmares. Hopefully you get it sorted out soon.

I will say a lot sounds like it has to do with the city and a bunch of bureaucratic bs. I just had a big ol tree cut down that was next to my pool. I never talked to anyone in the city or county or any of that. My friend who bought like 20 acres and is building a house 2 hours west of us has been chopping down trees for probably a year to be able to build road access, clear out an area for the house etc. While it has cost him way more than anticipated and has taken way longer... I don't believe any of it had to do with the city or permits or any of that. Mostly just shit costs a lot of money and you think you have to do stuff one way then find out that's the wrong way and you have to redo it.

But yeah.... both stories just confirm my existing belief that I have 0 desire to build a house. No dick punch needed here.

[spazzyfry123]

Your situation sounds like lyrics to an Arlo Guthrie song. What in the world?? Thankfully we are building in a much more relaxed area with effectively no restrictions.

We should be breaking ground on ours in the next month to month and a half. I’ve been working with lenders and have negotiated down to about 2% lower than the going rate right now. I’d suggest working with credit unions or other portfolio-based lenders if at all possible. Credit unions are also non-profits, so there are less taxes you will have to pay at closing as well.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

I will say a lot sounds like it has to do with the city and a bunch of bureaucratic bs....

100%. A lot of this is self-inflicted by the town we chose to buy land in. We could have picked a different town and had a house by now. A couple massive lessons learned too late for us:

1) Find a builder who has an ACTIVE project in the municipality you want to build in. Not a builder who has built a ton of homes NEAR your town, and not a builder who built in your town X years ago. Find someone building right now and ask (pay them) to sit down with you and your architect and help you through the feasibility period, before you buy. Every town has idiosyncrasies that need to be thoroughly understood. Our builder, architect, civil engineer, geo tech engineer, etc. have all done dozens of projects NEAR our property but technically in different towns. All are flummoxed by how badly they underestimated the pain we would be subjected to. If we were building in Seattle, our house would be done because Seattle is pro-growth and actively tries to cut out the red tape because they need density. If we were building a few towns over in Bothell we'd be in the middle of a mandatory 12-month storm water management test. If we were building a few towns over in the other direction in Shoreline we'd be hung up on civil engineering permits because their on staff civil engineering reviewer is notoriously under-qualified, overzealous, and slow. In the town we picked, it's all about the trees. One of the reasons we picked the locale. We have 95% canopy coverage on our lot and will still have 75% when the project is done. We want to feel like we are living in the forest but be 5 minutes from town.

2) Some towns dont want development. They dont care about your tax dollars. They are happy with the town as is and really dont want you developing. They will actively discourage it through red tape and other BS. Ultimately they cant prevent you, but they can make it so painful that you walk away. Win for them.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Your situation sounds like lyrics to an Arlo Guthrie song. What in the world?? Thankfully we are building in a much more relaxed area with effectively no restrictions.

We should be breaking ground on ours in the next month to month and a half. I’ve been working with lenders and have negotiated down to about 2% lower than the going rate right now. I’d suggest working with credit unions or other portfolio-based lenders if at all possible. Credit unions are also non-profits, so there are less taxes you will have to pay at closing as well.

Right? It has all the makings of a country music song. We just need a pickup and and old dog to add to the story.

Credit unions and portfolio lenders are a GREAT tip. We selected a portfolio lender that my wife's business banks with. Were are looking at a "cross collateral" loan which takes into account the value of our current home and uses that to offset debt to income ratio requirements. Its nice because it means we dont have to sell the current home and the rent for 18 months, just to get the construction loan.

Please share any tips you have on your strategy to negotiate the rate down! We found, overall, every bank and CU we spoke to was like "Yep, thats the rate. Dont like it, there's the door. Didnt really want to lend you the $ anyway." What was your general strategy to talk down the rates and are you talking to smaller local banks and CUs?

Keep us posted on the build!

[spazzyfry123]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

Right? It has all the makings of a country music song. We just need a pickup and and old dog to add to the story.

Credit unions and portfolio lenders are a GREAT tip. We selected a portfolio lender that my wife's business banks with. Were are looking at a "cross collateral" loan which takes into account the value of our current home and uses that to offset debt to income ratio requirements. Its nice because it means we dont have to sell the current home and the rent for 18 months, just to get the construction loan.

Please share any tips you have on your strategy to negotiate the rate down! We found, overall, every bank and CU we spoke to was like "Yep, thats the rate. Dont like it, there's the door. Didnt really want to lend you the $ anyway." What was your general strategy to talk down the rates and are you talking to smaller local banks and CUs?

Keep us posted on the build!

Very direct and transparent. I had a conversation with each of the lenders to highlight their shortcomings as it relates to their competition. I then took all of the disclosures (five lenders in total) in a zip file and sent it to each of the lenders after the conversation. By them having full disclosures in writing, they were able to use that as "ammo" with management to justify altering their offerings. I did this all in one day and gave them a timeline to provide their absolute best offer by with the understanding that the best overall package will be getting my business.

This ended up reducing what was my best closing costs by about $12k and what was my best rate by about 2%. Fixed monthly costs are reduced enough to tack on another car payment if we wanted (we don't ) and upfront closing cost reduction will just be more money towards equity.

Only way to negotiate interest rate will be with a portfolio-based lender or some creativity with someone buying points - but I was adamant to keep the build and the financing separate to avoid missing opportunities to negotiate the build itself. We've probably knocked off at least $50k at this point in addition to the reduction of recurring interest charges.

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by spazzyfry123

Very direct and transparent. I had a conversation with each of the lenders to highlight their shortcomings as it relates to their competition. I then took all of the disclosures (five lenders in total) in a zip file and sent it to each of the lenders after the conversation. By them having full disclosures in writing, they were able to use that as "ammo" with management to justify altering their offerings. I did this all in one day and gave them a timeline to provide their absolute best offer by with the understanding that the best overall package will be getting my business.

This ended up reducing what was my best closing costs by about $12k and what was my best rate by about 2%. Fixed monthly costs are reduced enough to tack on another car payment if we wanted (we don't ) and upfront closing cost reduction will just be more money towards equity.

Only way to negotiate interest rate will be with a portfolio-based lender or some creativity with someone buying points - but I was adamant to keep the build and the financing separate to avoid missing opportunities to negotiate the build itself. We've probably knocked off at least $50k at this point in addition to the reduction of recurring interest charges.

Brilliant. Thanks! I do that with car dealers, so why did it never dawn on me to do it here. I think this whole air of “you are lucky we would even consider loaning you money for construction” threw me off my game.

[CamasM3e93]

Originally Posted by DETRoadster

100%. A lot of this is self-inflicted by the town we chose to buy land in. We could have picked a different town and had a house by now. A couple massive lessons learned too late for us:

1) Find a builder who has an ACTIVE project in the municipality you want to build in. Not a builder who has built a ton of homes NEAR your town, and not a builder who built in your town X years ago. Find someone building right now and ask (pay them) to sit down with you and your architect and help you through the feasibility period, before you buy. Every town has idiosyncrasies that need to be thoroughly understood. Our builder, architect, civil engineer, geo tech engineer, etc. have all done dozens of projects NEAR our property but technically in different towns. All are flummoxed by how badly they underestimated the pain we would be subjected to. If we were building in Seattle, our house would be done because Seattle is pro-growth and actively tries to cut out the red tape because they need density. If we were building a few towns over in Bothell we'd be in the middle of a mandatory 12-month storm water management test. If we were building a few towns over in the other direction in Shoreline we'd be hung up on civil engineering permits because their on staff civil engineering reviewer is notoriously under-qualified, overzealous, and slow. In the town we picked, it's all about the trees. One of the reasons we picked the locale. We have 95% canopy coverage on our lot and will still have 75% when the project is done. We want to feel like we are living in the forest but [...]

I’m sensing bouquet of Woodinville in this story…..

[DETRoadster]

Originally Posted by CamasM3e93

I’m sensing bouquet of Woodinville in this story…..

I cannot confirm nor deny.

[spazzyfry123]

Finished and moved in I presume DETRoadster ?