M Sport package considered an "M" car?

[Moonbags]

Hm. I remove all the badges from my cars. Numbers and letters are ugly things to look at.

[Melbourne_X5M]

So many egos exposed in this thread. Great entertainment! Keep it coming

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Winter.M3

I agree, my friend and I were saying the new m340's are technically M cars but not the 330i m sport package. Even though the m340's aren't imo M, they are branded and have performance to back it up. But me and my friend agreed they weren't anything crazy while stock.

I am finding this comparison rather dry. True "M" cars used to have V8's and since they been building M2, M3, and M4 with I6s, there is little difference between my M235 and an M2 except in HP and minor body lines.

Not enough to justify the extra cost, IMO.

[zatchmo]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

I am finding this comparison rather dry. True "M" cars used to have V8's and since they been building M2, M3, and M4 with I6s, there is little difference between my M235 and an M2 except in HP and minor body lines.

Not enough to justify the extra cost, IMO.

The diff is what makes an m car an m car to me. The better suspension and bigger brakes is just a nice extra. I personally don't care if the motor is an 'N' or 'S' variant or has 6, 8, or 10 cylinders.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

I am finding this comparison rather dry. True "M" cars used to have V8's and since they been building M2, M3, and M4 with I6s, there is little difference between my M235 and an M2 except in HP and minor body lines.

Not enough to justify the extra cost, IMO.

In 6 generations of M3, only one has had a V8. Only about half of M5 generations had a V8. The M1 was also not a V8.

I don’t think there was ever a time when “M” was thought of as synonymous with V8s. If anything, I’d say the M division is more famous for its straight sixes, especially since that’s the engine configuration most commonly associated with bmw it’s self.

AMG is definitely associated with v8s in my mind, though that’s changing as well.

[viperdoc]

I don't really care what anyone else does to their cars. If you like it, then do it. I certainly wouldn't waste time getting angry or somehow personally hurt by a piece of plastic on someone else's car, on a forum of all places. And I think many people have it wrong...those that put ///M badges on the trunk of an M sport probably aren't trying to fool anyone. They probably don't care at all who is looking at their car. I change the look of my car because it is how I like it to look. When I blacked out the chrome and silver on my X5 Xline I wasn't trying to "fool" anyone into thinking I had an M sport appearance package. I just happened to hate the look of chrome. End of story.

And the use of ///M and AMG are all money making schemes anyway. Slapping an "M" on the 50i one year after it was just an Xdrive 50i was ONLY to make more money with minimal effort in making it an M-lite car. And you know what...It worked like a charm. Lots of people with an M50i bashing M sport 40i owners.

MB did the same with the 2016 GLE400. It had a twin turbo 6 that made lots of HP and torque, and was an upgrade from the GLE350. One year later that same car became the 2017 GLE 43 AMG. Same. Exact. Car. $10000 increase in price tag

[GoneIn4Secs]

The amount of censorship on this forum is such a joke lol watch this be gone

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Moflow

In 6 generations of M3, only one has had a V8. Only about half of M5 generations had a V8. The M1 was also not a V8.

I don’t think there was ever a time when “M” was thought of as synonymous with V8s. If anything, I’d say the M division is more famous for its straight sixes, especially since that’s the engine configuration most commonly associated with bmw it’s self.

AMG is definitely associated with v8s in my mind, though that’s changing as well.

Hmm. People forget that the first popular M car was the E30 M3. It was a 238 hp I 4 produced from 1986 - 1991.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by DanG

Hmm. People forget that the first popular M car was the E30 M3. It was a 238 hp I 4 produced from 1986 - 1991.

It's a car that was engineered well over 30 years ago. There is large swath of people on this forum that don't even know it exists.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

It's a car that was engineered well over 30 years ago. There is large swath of people on this forum that don't even know it exists.

I feel sorry for them. It is an iconic BMW.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by DanG

I feel sorry for them. It is an iconic BMW.

It's pretty much the only reason why M cars available for purchase even exist. I have been at BMW meets where BMW drivers point at one and ask "what's that?"

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by DanG

I feel sorry for them. It is an iconic BMW.

And some of us were around BMW before any M-cars. Also witnessed the use of the 'M' by BMW, well before that iconic E30 M-car.

[HighlandPete]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

It's pretty much the only reason why M cars available for purchase even exist. I have been at BMW meets where BMW drivers point at one and ask "what's that?"

Don't forget the E28 M5 predates the E30 M3.

My colleague was running an original "M designation" sedan in 1981. The E12 M535i, properly developed by the Motorsport division.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by HighlandPete

Don't forget the E28 M5 predates the E30 M3.

My colleague was running an original "M designation" sedan in 1981. The E12 M535i, properly developed by the Motorsport division.

Haven't, the E28 M5 is one of the most fun BMWs I've ever driven. Never had a chance to drive an E12 though.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by Chihuahua

It's pretty much the only reason why M cars available for purchase even exist. I have been at BMW meets where BMW drivers point at one and ask "what's that?"

Extra weird considering how much values have skyrocketed over the past decade. If we were each to make a list of our "most iconic M cars" we would end up with different lists, but I bet the E30 M3 would be in the top 5 on 99.9 percent of them.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Moflow

In 6 generations of M3, only one has had a V8. Only about half of M5 generations had a V8. The M1 was also not a V8.

I don’t think there was ever a time when “M” was thought of as synonymous with V8s. If anything, I’d say the M division is more famous for its straight sixes, especially since that’s the engine configuration most commonly associated with bmw it’s self.

AMG is definitely associated with v8s in my mind, though that’s changing as well.

I appreciate your rebuttal. I recall some configurations differently from the past, but then my old memory could be hazy.

[Jcoop901]

So what's the verdict on license plate surrounds? Would an M or Powered by M plate surround be looked down upon? How about an M power hat? Would that draw ridicule if you don't own a proper M car? My keychain has an M on it.. Where's that fall on the list?

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by Jcoop901

So what's the verdict on license plate surrounds? Would an M or Powered by M plate surround be looked down upon? How about an M power hat? Would that draw ridicule if you don't own a proper M car? My keychain has an M on it.. Where's that fall on the list?

As long as you like and enjoy it, does it really matter in the long run.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by TAZ007

As long as you like and enjoy it, does it really matter in the long run.

There are two main audiences for these mods: ourselves and others.


Others:

If we do it for others, then we must admit that it is the attention that it brings that gives that feeling of enjoyment. The attention from those who are unaware of the difference between a M Sport and an M car versus the attention from those who do will be very different. One will be of admiration, the other of contempt. Contempt isn't something we normally aspire to, so it must be the admiration we seek.

Therefore:

• These mods are meant to gain the admiration of those who lack the knowledge or awareness.
• By definition, ignorance is defined as lacking knowledge awareness.
• Therefore these mods are meant the gain the admiration of the ignorant.
• The argument that "it doesn't matter what others think" in this particular case is nonsense, since the audience is specifically "others".

Ourselves:

If we do it for "ourselves" one could make the argument that we enjoy seeing it when we look at the car, which is a valid argument. But why do we enjoy seeing an M badge? It must be for what it stands for. Again, we can apply the same logic as we did when the audience was "others". If we don't know the difference between an M Sport can an an M car then we might simply be ignorant. If we do know the difference but do it anyway, then we either are willfully ignoring facts, or are trying to fool ourselves. We also might disagree what qualifies a car to be worthy of the M badge.

Therefore:

• We are ignorant through no fault of our own
• We choose to be ignorant
• We want to fool ourselves
• We disagree with others

In reality though, I think we like to say it's for "ourselves" but then we feel offended when "others" have a negative opinion on it. If it truly was exclusively for "others" then this shouldn't bother us... but it does. Hence 10 pages of discussion and tying to plead our cases to others. Realistically, it probably a little bit of both, we just don't care to admit it, especially when one audience is giving more negative feedback than another. Our sense of pride pushes us towards the path of lease resistance, which is just human nature. We can further narrow our audience from "(all)others" to "select others" ie those who are like-minded, but that would simply be living in an echo chamber of self approval wouldn't it? There is little actual achievement in getting the approval of those who already think like us. I think we secretly crave the approval of others. When we get approval, it matters, but when we get disapproval, then "it doesn't matter what other people think". It's very convenient in the protection of our feelings. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm guilty of it to, but that's how we mature as people. The sooner we admit how flawed we are, the better we are as people relating to other people.

So in the end, get an M badge, don't get an M badge, it really is up to the individual, but here's what other people, including myself, have gone through in our journey through self expression through our vehicles. We've all been there, learn from what we have learned through our own mistakes and journey from ignorance.

[TAZ007]

Originally Posted by jmg

There are two main audiences for these mods: ourselves and others.


Others:

If we do it for others, then we must admit that it is the attention that it brings that gives that feeling of enjoyment. The attention from those who are unaware of the difference between a M Sport and an M car versus the attention from those who do will be very different. One will be of admiration, the other of contempt. Contempt isn't something we normally aspire to, so it must be the admiration we seek.

Therefore:

• These mods are meant to gain the admiration of those who lack the knowledge or awareness.
• By definition, ignorance is defined as lacking knowledge awareness.
• Therefore these mods are meant the gain the admiration of the ignorant.
• The argument that "it doesn't matter what others think" in this particular case is nonsense, since the audience is specifically "others".

Ourselves:

If we do it for "ourselves" one could make the argument that we enjoy seeing it when we look at the car, which is a valid argument. But why do we enjoy seeing an M badge? It must be for what it stands for. Again, we can apply the same logic as we did when the audience was "others". If we don't know the difference between an M Sport can an an M car then we might simply be ignorant. If we do know the difference but do it anyway, then we either are willfully ignoring facts, or are trying to fool ourselves. We also might disagree what qualifies a car to be worthy of the M badge.

Therefore:

• We are ignorant through no fault of our own
• We choose to be ignorant
• We want to fool ourselves
• We disagree with others

In reality though, I think we like to say it's for "ourselves" but then we feel offended when "others" have a negative opinion on it. If it truly was exclusively for "others" then this shouldn't bother us... but it does. Hence 10 pages of discussion and tying to plead our cases to others. Realistically, it probably a little bit of both, we just don't care to admit it, especially when one audience is giving more negative feedback than another. Our sense of pride pushes us towards the path of lease resistance, which is just human nature. We can further narrow our audience from "(all)others" to "select others" ie those who are like-minded, but that would simply be living in an echo chamber of self approval wouldn't it? There is little actual achievement in getting the approval of those who already think like us. I think we secretly crave the approval of others. When we get approval, it matters, but when we get disapproval, then "it doesn't matter what other people think". It's very convenient in the protection of our feelings. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm guilty of it to, but that's how we mature as people. The sooner we admit how flawed we are, the better we are as people relating to other people.

So in the end, get an M badge, don't get an M badge, it really is up to the individual, but here's what other people, including myself, have gone through in our journey through self expression through our vehicles. We've all been there, learn from what we have learned through our own mistakes and journey from ignorance.

Thanks for the different perspective. While my comment was about "ourselves" it ignored "others".

[petar7408]

Originally Posted by Siajoon

I've taught my wife well.. We will be driving and she's like.. HEY!! That's a fake M it doesn't have bulging fenders and doesn't have quad exhausts what a poser. And I just smirk at her.. so proud

my wife is the same! She laughs at them when she knows. We were in a parking lot and this fake M with an m3 badge was there. She asked if the car was a real m3 because it was missing _x_ and the guy had to admit it wasnt and was surprised someone knew. The problem is anyone who cares will know!

[petar7408]

Originally Posted by hotbmwfan

This hits the nail on the head for me. I cant even walk through a BMW showroom any more without getting frustrated. I asked a salesman about a year ago if the M235 on the showroom floor was an M car. He said yes, I walked away. BMW seems to be putting an M badge on everything. Used to be that you could pay extra for something special, not any more. This, combined with that disgusting front end on the G8X, will mean that I will likely never buy another new BMW. Glad that I have one of the last truly special M3's - it better last forever.

I am 100% with you! This f80 m3 might be my last. So many M brands on everything has ruined it and the new look is just disgusting, breaks my heart