Anyone taken the LSATS recently?

[wj4]

Originally Posted by wren57

I took mine about 2 years ago. Just prepare for them, get a good nights sleep, eat a good breakfast and get there early. Can't go wrong if you do this.

Oh, and if you get a scholarship somewhere, take it. Bills rack up quickly.

I'm not going to law school or anything, but this caught my interest so I want to ask you a question.

Would you take a scholarship to a 'regular' law school or opt to pay to attend a school with more prestige?

[wren57]

I took a scholarship to a "regular" law school, even though my LSAT was in the 160s. Having a minimal debt load upon graduation as opposed to, say, $150k is really life altering. Not to mention all lawyers I know only care about where you went to school for the first few years of your career, then they look at your work history.

[moveswiftly]

The only T1 school I'm really considering is NYU. I need to stay close to home because I run the family business. Fordham is t2 and the rest are t3. Scholarship is a BIG factor for me. From my stand point even if I go to a T2 or even T3 school on a good scholarship I'll still work hard and will have m easier chance to be in the top 5 or 10% of my class compared to NYU where everyone I know will have AT least an average UGPA of 3.6-3.7 and an average LSAT score of 170. Anyone have any feedback on this mentality? I couldve gone to an ivy league school for college but I choose not to because of $ an followed the big fish in a small pond ideology.

[moveswiftly]

And also I have REALISTIC expectations of my LSAT scores. I'm not a genius lol I just work hard. I expect in the 160's. To get 170+ would be difficult.

[fwmcb]

Your plan seems logical and similar to mine. I was admitted to some big name schools, but at the end of the day going to a school in the Province that I want to practice in made more sense from a bar admissions standpoint (not sure how it works in the USA). Also, I was able to continue to work for my family's companies while attending school, which has its advantages. I wish you the best of luck, don't stress about it, with marks like that you should do fine, work on your cover letters and personal statements now, cause those factored highly in Canadian law school admissions.

[bkM3]

i was about to take the LSATs bur realized that being a lawyer wasnt for me. i still have all my prep books. let me know if you want them, i have no use for them lol

[wren57]

Originally Posted by chesterfan1230

And also I have REALISTIC expectations of my LSAT scores. I'm not a genius lol I just work hard. I expect in the 160's. To get 170+ would be difficult.

Don't let the practice LSATs fool you. I was scoring in the 170-175 range on those, but didn't do nearly as well on the real deal.

[wj4]

Originally Posted by wren57

I took a scholarship to a "regular" law school, even though my LSAT was in the 160s. Having a minimal debt load upon graduation as opposed to, say, $150k is really life altering. Not to mention all lawyers I know only care about where you went to school for the first few years of your career, then they look at your work history.

Thanks for your insight. I'm facing a similar dilemma right now, albeit with B-school and GMAT as oppose to law school and LSAT.

My step-dad also advised me pretty much the same thing. He told me that despite of what school you go to, there will be a threshold that you will cross in which work experience outweighs your school reputation. (He also attended 'regular' MBA and law schools).

I wanted to go to a more prestigious school, but that would have secondary costs such as rent, since I would have to move away. I'm looking to attend a somewhat local school so I can at least cut down on that.

OP-sorry if I kind of highjacked your thread.

[wren57]

Don't forget to count in interest when determining loan load. $150k in loans, 8% interest, thats $12k per year in interest alone!!! If you make $100k per year, you get 40 lopped off in fed tax, prob a few more in state tax, fica, etc, so probably take home around $50k. Now with that $50k you have to pay $12k to interest alone, putting you to $38k disposable income. As an attorney you'll need suits, nice briefcase, likely good glasses, etc, so factor those in. Once you add in living expenses, car note, insurance, etc, there is barely any left to put down on the $150k principal which remains. Even if you put down $10k to principal a year it'll take around 10 years to pay it off (because you'll be paying less interest as you pay down principal). Only THEN can you start saving for retirement, at age 36-37.

On the flip side, if you get out at 26-27 making, say, $75k/year with no debt load, you take home about the same $38k you did from the $100k job after paying the loan interest. Only now instead of putting the extra money towards the principal, you're putting it towards retirement. By the time you're 35+, nobody will care what law school you went to and your salary will have adjusted to your performance. I'd rather already have a nice retirement account than be starting from scratch.

/hijack

GL on your LSAT.

[nissan]

Originally Posted by chesterfan1230

The only T1 school I'm really considering is NYU. I need to stay close to home because I run the family business. Fordham is t2 and the rest are t3. Scholarship is a BIG factor for me. From my stand point even if I go to a T2 or even T3 school on a good scholarship I'll still work hard and will have m easier chance to be in the top 5 or 10% of my class compared to NYU where everyone I know will have AT least an average UGPA of 3.6-3.7 and an average LSAT score of 170. Anyone have any feedback on this mentality? I couldve gone to an ivy league school for college but I choose not to because of $ an followed the big fish in a small pond ideology.

A study was done recently which showed the salary boost for getting high grades makes up for the salary depreciation associated with attending a lower‐ranked school. They didn't get into why the findings were true and I find the study itself to be somewhat flawed. I think the arguments on both sides are compelling and, in the end, it all depends on the individual. There's nothing to say someone who gave up Yale for Baylor is going to be in the top 10% at Baylor. If you don't make that cut at a T2, you're pretty much screwed getting into Big Law and good luck fighting for the scarce amount of jobs with thousands of other grads. A lot of this is risk-reward, if you're risk averse, best bet would be to take on the debt and let the school's "prestige" help you via grade inflation and marketability, even if you aren't in the top 10%. If you're banking on being top 10% at a T2 and are willing to bust your a$$ to get there, it's the better choice (though, there will probably be a fair amt of ppl who got into T14/T1 making the same bet to compete with). If you're in the top 25% at a T14/T1, you won't have anything to worry about.

Going to law school is probably one of the riskiest educational decisions someone can make IMO. I've seen some really intelligent ppl go to LS and, 3 yrs later, are out there either doing doc review or depressed over being unemployed for over a yr. When I got out of LS, I was lucky enough to get some nice offers. There were ppl who I know worked way harder than me in LS and ended up getting screwed. E.g. Morgan Lewis in Philly offering only ~28% of its summers associate positions, Pepper at 50%, etc. This is why I always cringe a little whenever someone says they want to go to LS. The propaganda put out by law schls is ridiculous.

I ended up opting to take an offer in finance at a F500 co. than deal with billable hrs, law firm BS, and layoffs. I worked hard going full time to law schl during the day and MBA at night to give me a backup plan in case I couldn't get offers at law firms.

[moveswiftly]

Originally Posted by nissan

A study was done recently which showed the salary boost for getting high grades makes up for the salary depreciation associated with attending a lower‐ranked school. They didn't get into why the findings were true and I find the study itself to be somewhat flawed. I think the arguments on both sides are compelling and, in the end, it all depends on the individual. There's nothing to say someone who gave up Yale for Baylor is going to be in the top 10% at Baylor. If you don't make that cut at a T2, you're pretty much screwed getting into Big Law and good luck fighting for the scarce amount of jobs with thousands of other grads. A lot of this is risk-reward, if you're risk averse, best bet would be to take on the debt and let the school's "prestige" help you via grade inflation and marketability, even if you aren't in the top 10%. If you're banking on being top 10% at a T2 and are willing to bust your a$$ to get there, it's the better choice (though, there will probably be a fair amt of ppl who got into T14/T1 making the same bet to compete with). If you're in the top 25% at a T14/T1, you won't have anything to worry about.

Going to law school is probably one of the riskiest educational decisions someone can make IMO. I've seen some really intelligent ppl go to LS and, 3 yrs later, are out there either doing doc review or depressed over being unemployed for over a yr. When I got out of LS, I was lucky enough to get some nice offers. There were ppl who I know worked way harder than me in LS and ended up getting screwed. E.g. Morgan Lewis in Philly offering only ~28% of its summers associate positions, Pepper at 50%, etc. This is why I always cringe a little whenever someone says they want to go to LS. The propaganda put out by law schls is ridiculous.

I ended up opting to take an offer in finance at a F500 co. than deal with billable hrs, law firm BS, and layoffs. I worked hard going full time to law schl during the day and MBA at night to give me a backup plan in case I couldn't get offers at law firms.

Well all of the schools I've listed are tier 1 schools...at least NYU, Rutgers, Fordham, Seton Hall and Brooklyn.... I"ll definitely end up going to one of those lol.

[Zephyr15]

Originally Posted by nissan

Going to law school is probably one of the riskiest educational decisions someone can make IMO.

I agree with this and didn't fully appreciate that fact until I was through to the other side (luckily on my feet). JD/MBA may be a good move for the OP as well given his major - might even help with acceptance.

IMO, LSAT prep classes aren't necessary because the books out there have the information you need, but if you need the class to make you do the work then it's probably worth it. I didn't take a class and got a really good score.

What you can't control is the applicant pool. The year I applied law schools received the largest number of applicants ever. I assume that "record" is old news these days and the applicant pool is even more competitive, so you have to take all the "last year's acceptance" data with a grain of salt and just wait and see what happens. Can't hurt to reach out to admissions at your targets and try to arrange a visit/meeting.

Whether to go to a lesser-ranked school for scholarship money or not is a case-by-case decision. I didn't go that route and don't regret that choice, but I'm sure others do. Just have to make the best choice you can with the information you have, work hard (and smart) and hope for the best.

Good luck.

[nissan]

Originally Posted by chesterfan1230

Well all of the schools I've listed are tier 1 schools...at least NYU, Rutgers, Fordham, Seton Hall and Brooklyn.... I"ll definitely end up going to one of those lol.

?? Only NYU & Fordham are...rest are ranked under 50, last I checked?

[moveswiftly]

I don't know, based on this table all the law schools i listed are shown as Tier 1 schools...

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsa...hools/rankings