Navy thread

[Lady Jane]

Speaking of submarines, the USS New Jersey (SSN-796) is the first gender integrated sub ever made and was recently commissioned.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Speaking of submarines, the USS New Jersey (SSN-796) is the first gender integrated sub ever made and was recently commissioned.

Women have been serving on U.S. Navy submarines for some years now; the distinction is that the New Jersey is the first submarine which was designed from the start for gender integration.

[Llarry]

The USS Jimmy Carter (SSN 23) is a unique submarine that was modified from the Seawolf class during construction by the insertion of a 100-foot section and the provision of lock-in/out capabilities for unmanned undersea vehicles. The Carter conducts highly classified intelligence-related activities and can support special operations forces. Those that have read the book Blind Man's Bluff may have some inkling of Carter's mission.

[billnchristy]

Originally Posted by Llarry

Women have been serving on U.S. Navy submarines for some years now; the distinction is that the New Jersey is the first submarine which was designed from the start for gender integration.

Helping keep our population numbers up.

[billnchristy]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

I remember walking on board the Midway my first time and immediately recognizing the smell! I'd been out of the Navy for probably 30 years at that point.

My wife said the same thing when we entered the Alabama the first time, just from smelling my uniforms.

[Llarry]

Periscope view from the USS Wahoo (SS 565) as a single torpedo fired from Wahoo breaks the back of the former USS Devilfish (SS 292) in an exercise in 1968.

[Llarry]

An interesting but likely flawed concept for a different kind of aircraft carrier penned by the U.S. Navy's Naval Sea Systems Command. The date of this is unknown but the aircraft depicted would indicate perhaps 20 years ago or so.

The landing area is straight ahead rather than the angled deck commonly used. The catapults are on the level of the hangar deck on either side and would likely be untenable in heavy seas.

[ezaircon4jc]

Originally Posted by Llarry

An interesting but likely flawed concept for a different kind of aircraft carrier penned by the U.S. Navy's Naval Sea Systems Command. The date of this is unknown but the aircraft depicted would indicate perhaps 20 years ago or so.

The landing area is straight ahead rather than the angled deck commonly used. The catapults are on the level of the hangar deck on either side and would likely be untenable in heavy seas.

Looks like a lawn dart!

[Llarry]

Surely one of the most impressive auxiliary ships ever built by any Navy, the Ural (SSV-33) was a combination steam turbine- and nuclear-powered multipurpose ship that was commissioned in 1989. Based more or less on a Kirov class battle cruiser hull, Ural had capabilities in intelligence collection, communications relay, missile tracking, etc. After commissioning it transited to the Soviet Far East.

The USSR was in turmoil and collapsing soon after, and the Pacific area did not have facilities to support and maintain the Ural. It became little more than a floating barracks. SSV-33 was decommissioned by the Russian Navy in 2002 and scrapped from 2010.

[M-technik-3]

EP-3E serial number 156511 has been towed across the road to PIMA for display. Interior walk through is not ready yet.

[c1pher]

The Navy needs to figure this out:

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by M-technik-3

EP-3E serial number 156511 has been towed across the road to PIMA for display. Interior walk through is not ready yet.

Reminds me of my VQ-2 days.

[M-technik-3]

I was at Misawa and the Navy would rotate in there about every 6 months.

[Boomer 2019]

I flew with VP-8 out of Pax River in the mid 1960's in the P3-A model. Then moved on to the A7-B with VA-215 doing Westpacs.

[Llarry]

U.S. Navy nuclear attack submarine construction continues to have troubles. One of the problems is a U.S. Congress that cannot get a new budget together, and therefore ends up relying on continuing resolutions to fund the government. That means that programs are funded at the same level and new programs are not funded at all.

The Navy has been shuffling around money to pay for cost increases in current construction submarines. That jeopardizes funding for future submarines. And this issue is also jeopardizing the construction of the new Columbia class of strategic missile submarines as well, since they come out of the same shipyards as the attack boats.

The first photo is a closeup of the forward section of the USS New Jersey (SSN 796) and the second is of the Iowa (SSN 797) undergoing sea trials. The Iowa is not yet commissioned.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Lady Jane

Speaking of submarines, the USS New Jersey (SSN-796) is the first gender integrated sub ever made and was recently commissioned.

I recently read some detail on the changes made to make new submarines more female-friendly. Besides the obvious changes to sleeping and shower/head facilities, these include lowering overhead vales to improve access for shorter persons and providing steps to improve access to bunks and stacked laundry facilities.

Women were first assigned to U.S. Navy submarines in 2011. Efforts were made at the beginning to assign already-experienced women in technical specialties to cross over to submarine duty so as to avoid a crew with only junior female personnel.

Given the years that have passed, there should be a good number of fairly senior women (Chief Petty Officers or Lieutenant Commanders) in the crews now. It will not be too many years before a female officer will serve as CO of a submarine.

[Llarry]

The history of U.S. Navy carrier aviation is generally one of increasing capability. The early carriers had limited numbers of aircraft assigned, but the quantity gradually increased. Aircraft parking and handling improved, allowing the aircraft carrier to project additional combat power.

By around 1940, the standard carrier air group consisted of four squadrons: One with 18 fighters, two with 36 scout/dive bombers and one with 18 torpedo planes, for a total of 72 airplanes. There were also a few utility aircraft assigned.

A major innovation in 1942 early in World War II was the introduction of folding wings for the standard fighter of the time -- the Grumman F4F Wildcat. From 18 fighters, the allowance was increased to 27 and then to 36 fighters. This permitted enough fighters to protect the carrier from enemy air attack and to provide fighters to escort the strike forces attacking the enemy fleet. The air group then numbered 90 airplanes and the decks became more crowded.

In late 1944/early 1945 the situation changed again. Japanese suicide aircraft attacks took a heavy toll on American carriers and accompanying ships. Accordingly, the fighter complement on each carrier was increased to 72 F6F Hellcats and/or F4U Corsairs to improve air defenses. To make room for all those fighters, the two bombing and torpedo squadrons were reduced to 15 aircraft each. Now the total was 102 aircraft, which strained aircraft handling, maintenance and crew accommodation; all those additional aircraft brought with them more pilots, mechanics, etc.

After the war, in late 1945/1946, the situation eased somewhat. But carrier aircraft kept getting larger. By 1950 -- the Korean War era -- each carrier air group had two jet fighter squadrons with about 32 aircraft, plus a prop fighter squadron with F4Us and an AD Skyraider attack squadron. Detachments of helicopters, photo recon, electronic warfare and airborne early warning aircraft increased the total. Now an air group totaled about 80 aircraft, but they were mostly far larger aircraft.

After the Korean War, the number and size of jet aircraft continued to increase as the carrier air group continued the transition to all jets.

In the 1960s and 1970s -- the Vietnam War era -- the size of the carrier air group (renamed the carrier air wing) did not change much in the number of aircraft assigned, but the size of the aircraft continued to grow. There was no relief from crowded carrier flight and hangar decks.

The number of aircraft in a carrier air wing has decreased slightly in recent years. A typical air wing now has 44 F-18 or F-35 strike fighters. But the number of other aircraft has continued to grow: E-2 Hawkeye radar planes, EA-18 electronic warfare aircraft and particularly MH-60 helicopter numbers have increased substantially. In the near future, MQ-25 tanker drones will be added to the wing. It seems clear that crowded decks are a fact of life in carrier aviation and will remain so.

[Llarry]

As can be seen in the photos in my last post, folding wings are a feature of most carrier aircraft. In the biplane era, that was generally not so -- the exception was the Martin T4M torpedo plane (see first photo).

After monoplanes became the norm, folding wings were almost always used and continue to be used today.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Llarry

After monoplanes became the norm, folding wings were almost always used and continue to be used today.

There have been a couple of notable exceptions to the folding wings of carrier aircraft:

The first came in the 1950s when the very compact Douglas A4D (later A-4) Skyhawk (affectionately called the "Scooter") became the standard carrier-based and Marine Corps light attack aircraft. The A4D had a wingspan of just 27.5 feet and featured relatively light weight; a folding wing -- with its weight penalty -- was deemed unnecessary.

The other notable exception to the folding wing was the Grumman F-14 Tomcat with its variable-geometry wings. The F-14's wings could be swept back to an "oversweep" angle, reducing the width to 33.3 feet.

At the other end of the spectrum was the Douglas A3D (new A-3) Skywarrior (dubbed the "Whale" due to its great size) heavy attack aircraft. The A-3 could fold not only its wings, but also its large vertical tail (not depicted). The later Lockheed S-3 Viking ("Hoover") was more compact but still featured a folding vertical tail in addition to folding wings.

I neglected to mention a much earlier aircraft that was both important and lacked folding wings: The Douglas SBD Dauntless. Given the incredible accomplishments of the SBD in sinking a number of Imperial Japanese Navy aircraft carriers at the Battle of Midway in June of 1942, I think a case can be made that the Dauntless is one of the most significant Navy aircraft of any period. Regretfully, it was designed with a wing that did not lend itself to the critical folding mode, which limited its use later in the war.

[Llarry]

Since we don't have a Marine thread, I'll post this here... (Note that the Marines are not part of the Navy, but are a separate service under the Department of the Navy.)

Happy 249th birthday to the United States Marine Corps. Making history since 1775.

[Llarry]

Canada plans to buy a dozen submarines with under-ice capability for the Royal Canadian Navy. The government has requested information from a number of sources in an attempt to define the program. The submarine buy might be reduced to eight if costs are too great.

At the NATO summit last summer, the Canadian PM and Defense Minister met with German and Norwegian counterparts to discuss a trilateral agreement on operations in the North Atlantic and Arctic.

Complicating matters, Canadian elections will be held by October 2025 -- a change of government could impact the submarine procurement.

If only Canada would join AUKUS and produce nuclear-powered submarines... but very expensive! I suppose I can dream of CANAUKUS.

[Llarry]

Canada, Finland and the USA signed an agreement to coordinate icebreaker design on November 13th. The Icebreaker Collaborative Effort (ICE) Pact will bring the three nations' icebreaker efforts together; while not explicitly stated, I suspect the result will be a largely common icebreaker design built in shipyards of all three countries. Finland is generally regarded as the premiere builder of icebreakers, and I suspect will have outsize influence in the design. It will take a while to flesh out details.