F1 2024: Mexican GP - Mexico City (Oct 27)

[GuidoK]

Maybe you have a different idea of what is meant by the Max factor as what other people mean by it?
I mean, is there a set and done definition about that slogan? I don't think so?
But you seem to think so?

anyway, it's a silly discussion imo.

[minn19]

Damn it, I missed a great race! Was just watching highlights and of course the latest Max and Lando scrap. Will have to wait for Artemis to post the official FIA release to see their reasoning.

I haven’t seen a great slow mo version of it, but from what I did see it looked like Lando was for sure ahead the first corner. Plus Max hit Lando so wonder if that is why the first ten second penalty.

Second one Max is definitely ahead, so wondering what the second ten was for based on last weeks rulings. They said for going off track and gaining an advantage over RBR radio. Maybe they didn’t think he would’ve been in position to make the second pass (in a dangerous spot with the wall right there) if he hadn’t left the track in the first corner incident.

I’m sure they are trying to send a message to calm down after a second week of this before there is a bad accident and someone is potentially injured. But, will be very interesting to read the stewards reports.

Very happy for Carlos and Ferrari!

[minn19]

Originally Posted by G30M

the thing is, i watched the first incident. it's exactly the same as last week. Norris making the pass, got pushed wide, but Norris stays ahead.

Last week they gave Lando the penalty.
then McLaren appealed and got told to FO.

So Max did it again, but this time it's a 10s penalty to Max.

the FIA is confused lol

Looked like Lando was ahead the entire time through the first corner and then Max also hit him.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

And Ferrari get rid of Carlos 🤦‍♂️

Yeah for a 8 time wdc. Glad winning one race makes them equal.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

If all you can post is this, then it must be really hard for you not being able to cheer for your goat the 3rd year in a row and who's currently only 6th in the wdc....

Wasn't Max a bottom feeder this race and for like 5 years prior to being handed a WDC win he didn't deserve?

Max fans are hilarious

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Yeah for a 8 time wdc. Glad winning one race makes them equal.

Not what I said, not what I meant. Ferrari have the best driver pair on the grid that could last a long time IMHO. I worry Lewis may only stay 1 or 2 years. Plus I don't know if LEC and HAM will work well together. Basically don't fix what isn't broken.

[G30M]

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by RichardInCA

I’m not sure it’s that weird….when one thinks about the stuff outside of the rule books. Seems like the stewards didn’t want to hand Lando the podium position last week as the result of a questionable pass so they wrapped his knuckles with 5 seconds, kinda thought well Max wasn’t an angel but if we don’t give Lando a 10 sec penalty for track limits then it sorta means we can sleep at night and we’ll write something both-sides-y in the post race memo.
Fast forward to Mexico City, it’s lap 1 - plenty of time for the race to play out and iron out the impacts of a stewards decision early in the race (theoretically) BUT if they rinse/repeated the COTA decision then everyone will be up in arms about the “FIA always favors Max”. My guess is that they wanted to send a louder message than they did in the stewards post-race note from COTA. Either way, the two consecutive corner stuff from Max was kinda blatant - making it very easy for the stewards to come down hard this time. It’s never really been about consistency and precedent setting with FIA, or at least that’s how it appears to me.

Originally Posted by minn19

Damn it, I missed a great race! Was just watching highlights and of course the latest Max and Lando scrap. Will have to wait for Artemis to post the official FIA release to see their reasoning.
I haven’t seen a great slow mo version of it, but from what I did see it looked like Lando was for sure ahead the first corner. Plus Max hit Lando so wonder if that is why the first ten second penalty.
Second one Max is definitely ahead, so wondering what the second ten was for based on last weeks rulings. They said for going off track and gaining an advantage over RBR radio. Maybe they didn’t think he would’ve been in position to make the second pass (in a dangerous spot with the wall right there) if he hadn’t left the track in the first corner incident.
I’m sure they are trying to send a message to calm down after a second week of this before there is a bad accident and someone is potentially injured. But, will be very interesting to read the stewards reports.
Very happy for Carlos and Ferrari!

Austin F1 race of last week - race incident between British driver Norris (with a Belgian mother) and Belgian/Dutch driver Verstappen. The 4-stewards panel featured the British former race driver Derek Warwick and the Belgian lawyer (practicing in Luxembourg) Loïc Bacquelaine.
Verdict: a 5 second time penalty for Norris:



Mexico F1 race of this week - race incidents between British driver (with a Belgian mother) Norris and Belgian/Dutch driver Verstappen. The 4-stewards panel featured the British former race driver Johnny Herbert and the Belgian lawyer (practicing in Luxembourg) Loïc Bacquelaine.
Verdict: 2 × a 10 second time penalty for Verstappen:

[minn19]

Originally Posted by G30M

I was a Checo fan for a long time. Him pretending he’s Max with the late lunges at the back of the pack is a new low for him. He has no business being in that RBR seat.

Edit: Just looked back at the highlights and it was for points positions. Still some very bad choices by Checo with those moves IMO. Especially since he’s cost RBR millions in damage this year, just adding more to the tab after this race.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Austin F1 race of last week - race incident between British driver Norris (with a Belgian mother) and Belgian/Dutch driver Verstappen. The 4-stewards panel featured the British former race driver Derek Warwick and the Belgian lawyer (practicing in Luxembourg) Loïc Bacquelaine.
Verdict: a 5 second time penalty for Norris:

Attachment 3586775

Mexico F1 race of this week - race incidents between British driver (with a Belgian mother) Norris and Belgian/Dutch driver Verstappen. The 4-stewards panel featured the British former race driver Johnny Herbert and the Belgian lawyer (practicing in Luxembourg) Loïc Bacquelaine.
Verdict: 2 × a 10 second time penalty for Verstappen:

Attachment 3586777

Attachment 3586776

Interesting/kind of weird. Seems different form the standard applied in Austin for the second corner unless I’m missing something. Unless from the telemetry they thought Max could’ve made the corner in Austin, but chose not to and that was still ok?

Also thanks for posting this!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Not what I said, not what I meant. Ferrari have the best driver pair on the grid that could last a long time IMHO. I worry Lewis may only stay 1 or 2 years. Plus I don't know if LEC and HAM will work well together. Basically don't fix what isn't broken.

Lec hasn't won anything, how is it the best drivers pair?
What have we seen from either driver to suggest they wouldn't work well together?
What happens if Lewis leaves in 2 years - they find a new driver like every other team would?

Sorry, this is basically as bad of an opinion as it gets

[minn19]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Lec hasn't won anything, how is it the best drivers pair?
What have we seen from either driver to suggest they wouldn't work well together?
What happens if Lewis leaves in 2 years - they find a new driver like every other team would?

Sorry, this is basically as bad of an opinion as it gets

Who’s a better driver pair then? They’ve combined for four wins, quite a few podiums and have a legitimate shot at the WCC. They race each other hard, but respectfully and I don’t think I’ve heard any drama between them off track. The haven’t won anything yet, but they are certainly going the right way.

Who else, OP and Lando? They are in the same position as the Ferraro boys IMO, but OP needs a year or two more to mature. He’s already one of my favorites and look forward to watching for years to come.

Lewis and George, just in an inconsistent car? Same for Mag and Hulk?

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by minn19

Who’s a better driver pair then? They’ve combined for four wins, quite a few podiums and have a legitimate shot at the WCC. They race each other hard, but respectfully and I don’t think I’ve heard any drama between them off track. The haven’t won anything yet, but they are certainly going the right way.

Who else, OP and Lando? They are in the same position as the Ferraro boys IMO, but OP needs a year or two more to mature. He’s already one of my favorites and look forward to watching for years to come.

Lewis and George, just in an inconsistent car? Same for Mag and Hulk?

There is nothing Carlos can do better than Lewis except lose.

It's a stupid comment based on nothing but conjure because Carlos won a race. I've argued he's better than Norris, but to suggest he's somehow a better fit because he plays second fiddle well is ridiculous.

In terms of sheer competitiveness, yes Lewis and Russell, that even with the 4th best car they have won 3 races between them.

[Killed by Death]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Lec hasn't won anything, how is it the best drivers pair?
What have we seen from either driver to suggest they wouldn't work well together?
What happens if Lewis leaves in 2 years - they find a new driver like every other team would?

Sorry, this is basically as bad of an opinion as it gets

Bro, you're not picking up what I'm putting down.

I didn't say LEC or SAI were the best drivers on the grid. I meant they are the best driver pairing. HAM and LEC are an unknown. I get visions or HAM vs. ROS. (Starwars)

VER and PER terrible
HAM and RUS don't seem to like each other much.
PIA and NOR pretty good. But PIA might be too alpha for NOR to handle
No one else really worth mentioning.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by minn19

Interesting/kind of weird. Seems different form the standard applied in Austin for the second corner unless I’m missing something. Unless from the telemetry they thought Max could’ve made the corner in Austin, but chose not to and that was still ok?

Also thanks for posting this!

Intriguing indeed. It's my view that in all three incidents (1 × Austin and 2 × Mexico), Verstappen was predominantly at fault: elbows and legs out, in a way that almost seems like he sets a DNF trap for Norris. Ever since the Austria GP crash, Norris seems to be much more aware of possible DNF consequences of some 'close encounters of the Max kind'.

But also: I disagree with HeelToeShift's suggestion that nationalities of the stewards are of any relevance ("Let’s also take a look at the nationalities of the stewards this week. There should never be any nationalistic bias and it’s clear there is."). I absolutely trust that the stewards do their job - performed under high time-constraints and with important consequences - in an impartial way. They are no robots, aren't dealing with an exact science and got to take decisions expeditiously.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

There is nothing Carlos can do better than Lewis except lose.

It's a stupid comment based on nothing but conjure because Carlos won a race. I've argued he's better than Norris, but to suggest he's somehow a better fit because he plays second fiddle well is ridiculous.

In terms of sheer competitiveness, yes Lewis and Russell, that even with the 4th best car they have won 3 races between them.

At his age of their careers I’m not sure about that. I don’t think it’s just because Carlos won this race, he had good points about Carlos being around much longer than Lewis. Which, I think most would agree with based on their ages.

I agree Lewis and George have punched above their weight with probably the most inconsistent car of the top four teams.

I think points could be made for LEC/SAI vs NOR/PIA vs HAM/RUS being the best duo currently. Not a lot of daylight between them and lot of talented drivers in that group.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Intriguing indeed. It's my view that in all three incidents (1 × Austin and 2 × Mexico), Verstappen was predominantly at fault: elbows and legs out, in a way that almost seems like he sets a DNF trap for Norris. Ever since the Austria GP crash, Norris seems to be much more aware of possible DNF consequences of some 'close encounters of the Max kind'.

But also: I disagree with HeelToeShift's suggestion that nationalities of the stewards are of any relevance ("Let’s also take a look at the nationalities of the stewards this week. There should never be any nationalistic bias and it’s clear timpartia"). I absolutely trust that the stewards do their job - performed under high time-constraints and with important consequences - in an impartial way. They are no robots, aren't dealing with an exact science and got to take decisions expeditiously.

I agree with all of this. I’m sure both Max and Lando know a DNF from Lando will end any chance of Lando catching him for the WDC.

This is what bothers me about Max’s actions the last couple of races. Yah it sucks getting passed by Lando, but if Max just races his race and keeps placing as high as possible, doesn’t DNF himself he has nothing to worry about.

Edit: I also agree with others it would be nice to have crew of maybe three steward groups that split up the season. I think youd have a lot more consistency. Much like a soccer/baseball ref. Even if they are wrong, you at least have an idea of how they’ll rule after some time with each group.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Killed by Death

Bro, you're not picking up what I'm putting down.

I didn't say LEC or SAI were the best drivers on the grid. I meant they are the best driver pairing. HAM and LEC are an unknown. I get visions or HAM vs. ROS. (Starwars)

VER and PER terrible
HAM and RUS don't seem to like each other much.
PIA and NOR pretty good. But PIA might be too alpha for NOR to handle
No one else really worth mentioning.

But they aren't the best pairing on the grid. They haven't won anything of significance.

I understand what you're saying completely and I still disagree to the point I think it's a bad opinion.

Lewis is better than Carlos. Full Stop. Lewis is as good or better than Charles, and if Ferrari wants to accomplish something more than having a "good"driver pairing and actually win, this is their best chance.

Would you be saying the same thing if Ferrari had the chance to get Max?

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

There is nothing Carlos can do better than Lewis except lose.
It's a stupid comment based on nothing but conjure because Carlos won a race. I've argued he's better than Norris, but to suggest he's somehow a better fit because he plays second fiddle well is ridiculous.
In terms of sheer competitiveness, yes Lewis and Russell, that even with the 4th best car they have won 3 races between them.

Hamilton won the Mexican GP twice (2016 and 2019).

Verstappen has won that GP five times (2017, 2018, 2021, 2022 and 2023).

Sainz's claim to Mexican fame: Ferrari won the Mexican GP only three times:

• 1970: Jacky Ickx (Belgium);
• 1990: Alain Prost (France);
• 2024: Carlos Sainz (Spain).

More power to Ferrari and both their drivers.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by minn19

At his age of their careers I’m not sure about that. I don’t think it’s just because Carlos won this race, he had good points about Carlos being around much longer than Lewis. Which, I think most would agree with based on their ages.

I agree Lewis and George have punched above their weight with probably the most inconsistent car of the top four teams.

I think points could be made for LEC/SAI vs NOR/PIA vs HAM/RUS being the best duo currently. Not a lot of daylight between them and lot of talented drivers in that group.

I am. Lewis Dusted the entire grid and almost toppled Perez less than a year ago. Don't let the struggles of this year fool you, he's still every bit of the driver he's always been, and that firmly puts him in a tier of himself.

Max hasn't won since he lost the car advantage and yet he's heralded as the best driver - and this is despite him driving like a scumbag. Lewis, having a car that doesn't suit his driving style, a team working against him and very much a less competitive vehicle has won 2 races this season - all without trying to kill and cheat everyone else.

There is nothing Carlos has or will do that will ever measure up to Lewis, and even suggesting as much puts opinions firmly into fan fiction levels of ridiculousness.

[AmuroRay]

[

Originally Posted by Artemis

Hamilton won the Mexican GP twice (2016 and 2019).

Verstappen has won that GP five times (2017, 2018, 2021, 2022 and 2023).

Sainz's claim to Mexican fame: Ferrari won the Mexican GP only three times:

• 1970: Jacky Ickx (Belgium);
• 1990: Alain Prost (France);
• 2024: Carlos Sainz (Spain).

More power to Ferrari and both their drivers.

And?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

I am. Lewis Dusted the entire grid and almost toppled Perez less than a year ago. Don't let the struggles of this year fool you, he's still every bit of the driver he's always been, and that firmly puts him in a tier of himself.

Max hasn't won since he lost the car advantage and yet he's heralded as the best driver - and this is despite him driving like a scumbag. Lewis, having a car that doesn't suit his driving style, a team working against him and very much a less competitive vehicle has won 2 races this season - all without trying to kill and cheat everyone else.

There is nothing Carlos has or will do that will ever measure up to Lewis, and even suggesting as much puts opinions firmly into fan fiction levels of ridiculousness.

I guess we’ll just have to wait and find out by this time next year.

I still think you missing some the points though, but it is what it is.