F1 2024: US GP - Austin (Oct 20)

[M5Rick]

To me Lando is a fun guy and has a great personality but when the lids drop he does need to take on some 'MAX factor' himself. Depending on how the 1 and 4 cars match each other from today I can't help thinking that Brown/Stella wishes that it was Oscar in the no. 4 car with the same points.

[fs1977]

So, McLaren is going to use their right of review. What do you guys think, any chance of succes?

https://racingnews365.com/the-high-b...review-protest

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

To me Lando is a fun guy and has a great personality but when the lids drop he does need to take on some 'MAX factor' himself. Depending on how the 1 and 4 cars match each other from today I can't help thinking that Brown/Stella wishes that it was Oscar in the no. 4 car with the same points.

Brown is a piece of 5H*T (!)

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Brown is a piece of 5H*T (!)

Piastri is now linked to a 3 plus way fight to move to RBR so no wonder Brown is fuming
OP is denying it but it's known that manager Webber is pushing for discussions with Marko about his future.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Piastri is now linked to a 3 plus way fight to move to RBR so no wonder Brown is fuming
OP is denying it but it's known that manager Webber is pushing for discussions with Marko about his future.

I actually love the psychological games RBR is playing with McLaren because it not only exposes McLaren’s insecurities but also throws them off their game. It’s fun to watch since Brown is such a toxic individual and given he tried to stir things up it’s only right that they do it back twice as hard. Mclaren has also treated Pia terribly and given how they've treated other drivers as well, it would be no surprise Pia would wants to leave.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by fs1977

So, McLaren is going to use their right of review. What do you guys think, any chance of succes?

https://racingnews365.com/the-high-b...review-protest

The stewards already reviewed the footage and the telemetry data during the race. I think given the decision was made rather quickly it's pretty clear cut so I doubt this will go anywhere. Honestly, they should have 24 hours to lodge a review, not 5 days later.

[dfox]

I don't think the outcome will change at all, but I think it's worth the review to get clarification on the rules and the stewards' interpretation of them. It could help shape future rules that prevent sloppy driving like divebombing and running off track. It's something I'd expect of a rookie, not a world champion. They've made rules because of Max's exploitation in the past, so this wouldn't be the first time.

Obviously this strategy doesn't work at street tracks... and Max openly hates street tracks. No coincidence.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by dfox

I don't think the outcome will change at all, but I think it's worth the review to get clarification on the rules and the stewards' interpretation of them. It could help shape future rules that prevent sloppy driving like divebombing and running off track. It's something I'd expect of a rookie, not a world champion. They've made rules because of Max's exploitation in the past, so this wouldn't be the first time.

Obviously this strategy doesn't work at street tracks... and Max openly hates street tracks. No coincidence.

To be fair, street tracks are pretty awful. That being said, Max has still owned most everyone in street tracks.

Regarding the protest, here is how I would look at it. Max gets 5 seconds, but Nor's penalty goes from 5 seconds to 10 seconds and they also count it as another track limits violation (this is his 4th as I recall) adding another 5 seconds pushing him back to 5th place. That would be quite just for the way they act as a team.

[G30M]

Originally Posted by fs1977

So, McLaren is going to use their right of review. What do you guys think, any chance of succes?

https://racingnews365.com/the-high-b...review-protest

apparently FIA needs to be convinced there is "new evidence" before they will review

they will see this "new evidence" at 1430 Mexico time

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by G30M

apparently FIA needs to be convinced there is "new evidence" before they will review

they will see this "new evidence" at 1430 Mexico time

It would be great if my scenario above becomes reality and Nor actually ends up receiving more penalty seconds due to the review and losing another place. That should be on the table and a possible consequence of asking for a review.
Not sure what new evidence they have except for maybe Brown plans to plead and beg that his owns driver doesnt know how to race and prefers HPDE point-bys.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by fs1977

The stewards can see all the data, speed, where you hit the brakes, how hard you hit the brakes, at what angle you turn in, the moment you turn in and so on. They can compare all that with previous laps and make a well reasoned decision.

But ultimately it's really simple, the rule states when you're ahead at the apex, the corner is yours. It's the same for every driver, can't blame Verstappen to be the one taking advantage of that.

FIA rules: how to apply, stretch and bend them. Alike Lewis, Max is a GOAT.

[dfox]

Originally Posted by HeelToeShift

To be fair, street tracks are pretty awful. That being said, Max has still owned most everyone in street tracks.

Regarding the protest, here is how I would look at it. Max gets 5 seconds, but Nor's penalty goes from 5 seconds to 10 seconds and they also count it as another track limits violation (this is his 4th as I recall) adding another 5 seconds pushing him back to 5th place. That would be quite just for the way they act as a team.

Why on earth would they count that as a track limits violation? He was avoiding an accident from a wild driver who couldn't control his car when divebombing to overtake. Clearly forced off track, there is no way to view that any differently.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by dfox

Why on earth would they count that as a track limits violation? He was avoiding an accident from a wild driver who couldn't control his car when divebombing to overtake. Clearly forced off track, there is no way to view that any differently.

It does look like Lando was cruelly taken there but those apex rules rule. He has said that the gloves will 'come off' now and its goodbye to the nice guy when the lids drop.

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by dfox

Why on earth would they count that as a track limits violation? He was avoiding an accident from a wild driver who couldn't control his car when divebombing to overtake. Clearly forced off track, there is no way to view that any differently.

Well, I am adjudicating that based on the original stewards report, which said they did not include his passing off track (off track being the root to why he violated the rules) as a track limits violation. Technically it was a track limit violation which would have then provided another well deserved 5 second penalty since he was already at 3 at that point whereas Max also went off track but he did not exceed the limits previously. As a smart driver, you can use those to your advantage...Max being a smart racer, again, proved he is playing 3D chess while Nor is trying to figure out how many colors are associated with checkers.
If you go back, Ham has cut and gained advantage on so many corners and gray area rules which the FIA for 8 years largely overlooked - including 28 track limits violations in Bahrain 2021 which if regulated properly would have pushed his minor .9 second win over Max to maybe 5th. Only difference is that many of his were cut and dry penalties that the FIA just turned a very blind eye too. Helen Keller could have seen them...

[G30M]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

He has said that the gloves will 'come off' now and its goodbye to the nice guy when the lids drop.

lol too late. the first need to figure out who they're racing.

i think they're racing LeClerc now, it's no longer Max

[G30M]

Originally Posted by dfox

Why on earth would they count that as a track limits violation? He was avoiding an accident from a wild driver who couldn't control his car when divebombing to overtake. Clearly forced off track, there is no way to view that any differently.

the only thing i can think of is that they will present that Max released his brakes after he started braking, and that at the point of releasing his brakes Norris was ahead.

however, there are no rules that says you can't release your brakes. maybe something in the 6 page racing etiquette/guideline (haven't seen or read that guideline)

the Max running wide/off track has already been ruled upon.

[atopa2002]

Originally Posted by G30M

the only thing i can think of is that they will present that Max released his brakes after he started braking, and that at the point of releasing his brakes Norris was ahead.

however, there are no rules that says you can't release your brakes. maybe something in the 6 page racing etiquette/guideline (haven't seen or read that guideline)

the Max running wide/off track has already been ruled upon.

AKA dive-bombing

[G30M]

FIA rejects McLaren due to no new evidence

"A petition for review is made in order to correct an error (of fact or law) in a decision. Any new element must demonstrate that error. The error that must be shown to exist, cannot itself be the element referred to in Article 14.

"In this case, the concept that the written Decision was the significant and relevant new element, or that an error in the decision was a new element, is not sustainable and is, therefore rejected."

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by G30M

FIA rejects McLaren due to no new evidence

"A petition for review is made in order to correct an error (of fact or law) in a decision. Any new element must demonstrate that error. The error that must be shown to exist, cannot itself be the element referred to in Article 14.

"In this case, the concept that the written Decision was the significant and relevant new element, or that an error in the decision was a new element, is not sustainable and is, therefore rejected."

FIA between a rock and a hard place with this. If Lando then goes to the inside then MAX or whoever is behind will do a Charlie as at Austin and power out of the turn maybe better..and the bugbear is that it's the first lap where stewards eyes are half closed apart from when contact happens and even then it's not cut and shut.