F1 2024: US GP - Austin (Oct 20)

[G30M]

Originally Posted by NYG

Russel was overtaking inside and got a penalty for forcing Bottas (lead) off track. Lando was attempting to overtake outside on Max, who was ahead at the apex - Lando got a penalty for gaining advantage (carrying more speed through a wider radius off the track).

It's pretty straight forward and what all the greatest drivers of all time do. They'll push the limits of everything.

here is the Russell Bottas incident (video in the article)

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...U0UXF6atF2v23G

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Which driver in the image do we think got punished. A or B

A- The one that hit the apex when they passed someone and stayed on track
B- The driver that missed the Apex to drive another driver off the track and went off the track themselves

I think it's now known as the - Dictionary - Interlagos defense. Aim to take the car on the outside of you off the track with you with no attempt to stay on the circuit to defend against overtaking to get no punishment. Note must be in a Red Bull....

These were very different scenarios.

Max was defending and was clearly ahead. Rus was attacking and behind. That was the main difference. Nor due to lack of passing ability had no right tot he corner whereas Bot did.
I think hard nosed racing is what should be allowed but I truly don’t think most guys in F1 besides Max, Alo, and Lec actually want to race hard - most just want to go out for Sunday drives.

[fs1977]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

Or punish them both and net off the impact or leave them to race if that is what they are doing.

In a way that's what happened if you read the stewards verdict, because normally it would be a 10sec penalty for Norris. They gave only 5sec. Remember it wasn't just the overtaking outside the track, Norris also had the black and white regarding tracklimits.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by fs1977

In a way that's what happened if you read the stewards verdict, because normally it would be a 10sec penalty for Norris. They gave only 5sec. Remember it wasn't just the overtaking outside the track, Norris also had the black and white regarding tracklimits.

They were both track limits at that time and nobody went over the total limits either despite earlier suggestion it was due to the way the computer showed the limits over two laps which wasn't correct.

We're they both in the wrong sure absolutely, did one deserve a punishment and not the other no. Did Max leave the required room either, no did he defend purposely off the circuit, yes. Did he do it twice during the race, again yes.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by MontyB1

If a driver has to roll out of the brakes to be ahead at the apex and then off the circuit to defend that is not legal racing. Overtaking off the circuit or defending off it is wrong plain and simple. Max did it twice and didn’t get a penalty once, that is just poor stewarding.

Or punish them both and net off the impact or leave them to race if that is what they are doing.

You guys are getting extreme with the specifics. Pretty soon you'll be asking the FIA to force drivers to give point-bys so they can gently pass them like on HPDE track days.

Over-regulating this stuff will destroy the racing and if you're being pragmatic about it, you know Lando just did not have the skill or enough of a car advantage to pass Max. I get it, it's not a good time for Brits. Let's not get out of hand though.

[NYG]

There should be no confusion here if you're unbiased.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

You guys are getting extreme with the specifics. Pretty soon you'll be asking the FIA to force drivers to give point-bys so they can gently pass them like on HPDE track days.

Over-regulating this stuff will destroy the racing and if you're being pragmatic about it, you know Lando just did not have the skill or enough of a car advantage to pass Max. I get it, it's not a good time for Brits. Let's not get out of hand though.

That’s my complaint, it is already over regulated and the column MontyB1 was a great analysis of that. If they keep going by this it’ll be damn near impossible to pass if all you have to do is get to the apex first and nothing else matters. It’s a rule 100% set up for defense and will further dissuade over taking except down the main straight under DRS.

The best example was the George penalty, if you can’t make that pass then how the hell are you ever supposed to pass legally on the majority of these tracks except down a straight with DRS?

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

There should be no confusion here if you're unbiased.

Agreed except the other way. Yes he’s a master at exploiting the rules. I’m surprised it took this long for it to come up.

If this were done to Max instead of him doing it to Lando…….you know this conversation would be a whole lot different speaking of bias here.

You can see from the angle going into the apex, George is actually trying to make the corner normally and Max obviously isn’t.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

That’s my complaint, it is already over regulated and the column MontyB1 was a great analysis of that. If they keep going by this it’ll be damn near impossible to pass if all you have to do is get to the apex first and nothing else matters. It’s a rule 100% set up for defense and will further dissuade over taking except down the main straight under DRS.

The best example was the George penalty, if you can’t make that pass then how the hell are you ever supposed to pass legally on the majority of these tracks except down a straight with DRS?

Agreed that it's already over regulated but disagree that getting to the apex first makes it easy to defend. Lando could have focused on his exit and taken an inside line to pass Max as he corrected understeer from carrying too much speed. Lando just isn't good enough, at least yet. Gravel pits and all that would dissuade even further.

I also think DRS is lame.

F1 is kind of doing what the NFL is doing (mostly done). They have no idea how to balance competition and safety. Instead of removing regulation, they keep adding which will eventually turn it into complete garbage.

Originally Posted by minn19

You can see from the angle going into the apex, George is actually trying to make the corner normally and Max obviously isn’t.

Doesn't change that Lando should have given the position back. The penalty was clear cut per the rules.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

Agreed that it's already over regulated but disagree that getting to the apex first makes it easy to defend. Lando could have focused on his exit and taken an inside line to pass Max as he corrected understeer from carrying too much speed. Lando just isn't good enough, at least yet. Gravel pits and all that would dissuade even further.

I also think DRS is lame.



Doesn't change that Lando should have given the position back. The penalty was clear cut per the rules.

Agreed on what Lando should’ve done. Still think the rules need to be looked at/rewritten. You shouldn’t be able to go off track to defend, that’s gaining an advantage just as big to go off track to pass IMO.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by minn19

Agreed on what Lando should’ve done. Still think the rules need to be looked at/rewritten. You shouldn’t be able to go off track to defend, that’s gaining an advantage just as big to go off track to pass IMO.

I think they need to just let them raw dog like they used to.

Sporting is better without excessive regs, imo.

Max is just doing the same genius shit that Lewis, Schumacher, Senna, etc have done.

[MontyB1]

Originally Posted by NYG

I think they need to just let them raw dog like they used to.

Sporting is better without excessive regs, imo.

Max is just doing the same genius shit that Lewis, Schumacher, Senna, etc have done.

Agree with that wholeheartedly let them race.

And of course some of this is banter and a touch of bias from both sides, the sport had always had it let’s face it but it’s gone a little worse today than it needs to be.