Cobb Tuning got fined $2.9M: why just them?

[David70]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

https://theautowire.com/2024/09/19/w...your-car-next/

"Some automotive publications have borderline celebrated this move. We won’t because we’ve been watching with concern as the EPA has moved from hitting big parts manufacturers and resellers, working its way down to small performance shops and dealerships. What’s next are private enthusiasts at their homes."

These articles make me laugh, showing EPA in riot gear. "coming to get my guns!" type articles. Honey, the EPA militia is outside the house, get in the car and head for the hills, I'll try to hold down the fort as long as I can!

Lots of states and counties already require periodic inspections. If your car isn't compliant you don't get your registration renewed until it is.

For the fear of them coming after private enthusiasts, what modern car mods can anyone do without an aftermarket company being involved? There's a reason they go after drug dealers instead of focusing on users.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

https://theautowire.com/2024/09/19/w...your-car-next/

"Some automotive publications have borderline celebrated this move. We won’t because we’ve been watching with concern as the EPA has moved from hitting big parts manufacturers and resellers, working its way down to small performance shops and dealerships. What’s next are private enthusiasts at their homes."

Yup, the EPA has been progressively targeting smaller and smaller targets.

It's only a matter of time before they go after an individual who modified their car, or bought a modified car. Then it's open season on people who just have old cars. Who's gonna be an individual that stands up to the EPA and their limitless resources?

[reallymarkedup]

Originally Posted by vreihen16

"Some automotive publications have borderline celebrated this move. We won’t because we’ve been watching with concern as the EPA has moved from hitting big parts manufacturers and resellers, working its way down to small performance shops and dealerships. What’s next are private enthusiasts at their homes."

"We won't because we'd rather fill you with fear, uncertainty, and doubt! Ooooo the boogeyman!"

[reallymarkedup]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yup, the EPA has been progressively targeting smaller and smaller targets.

It's only a matter of time before they go after an individual who modified their car, or bought a modified car. Then it's open season on people who just have old cars. Who's gonna be an individual that stands up to the EPA and their limitless resources?

Oh come on. They don't have the budget or the manpower.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by David70

These articles make me laugh, showing EPA in riot gear. "coming to get my guns!" type articles. Honey, the EPA militia is outside the house, get in the car and head for the hills, I'll try to hold down the fort as long as I can!

Lots of states and counties already require periodic inspections.

For the fear of them coming after private enthusiasts, what modern car mods can anyone do without an aftermarket company being involved? There's a reason they go after drug dealers instead of focusing on users.

Many states do not require any inspections or emissions, and more and more states and counties are going that way.

Regarding you "they won't come for me" statements. That's what every population that ended up oppressed ever has said. "It doesn't matter if they go after people with red hair, my hair is brown" is foolish to think like. Tyranny always starts with those big bad companies and trickles down to the populace at large once there's nobody left to protect them.

Ultimately, this discussion is doomed to get political, because one side takes full trust in the government to be right, and the other side doesn't want the government to be involved in their lives more than they must be.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by reallymarkedup

Oh come on. They don't have the budget or the manpower.

They have FAR more budget and manpower than an individual would. And the way the agencies work, they more they spend, the more they get next year. So they might prosecute 100 people with burble tunes one year, 200 the next, and so on and so forth.

[reallymarkedup]

Yeah I'm walking away the minute we start trying to compare the EPA doing what the EPA is meant to do with oppressing a population.

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Yup, the EPA has been progressively targeting smaller and smaller targets.

It's only a matter of time before they go after an individual who modified their car, or bought a modified car. Then it's open season on people who just have old cars. Who's gonna be an individual that stands up to the EPA and their limitless resources?

Tell us when it happens. Any predictions on what "it's only a matter of time" means? Vague predictions on something that has never happened, that might happen somewhere in the future are simple to say but meaningless.

I'll help you with the last part, you won't stand up the EPA as you won't have any basis to fight it, won't have anything to do with limited resources, you won't have a case. If you live in a state that has inspections and you don't pass one of them it is highly unlikely you are considering taking it to court and it isn't because of money, law is straight forward and you didn't meet it.

[DrVenture]

This isn't getting emotional and hyperbolic at all.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by David70

Tell us when it happens. Any predictions on what "it's only a matter of time" means? Vague predictions on something that has never happened, that might happen somewhere in the future are simple to say but meaningless.

I'll help you with the last part, you won't stand up the EPA as you won't have any basis to fight it, won't have anything to do with limited resources, you won't have a case. If you live in a state that has inspections and you don't pass one of them it is highly unlikely you are considering taking it to court.

The future is always changing. It could happen in the next 4 years, it could never happen. Gut feeling, if we keep on the exact same path we are on right now, they'll go after a YouTuber within the decade.


Nevermind. It's already happened. Looks like they sent him a "stop or we will sue you into oblivion" letter and didn't follow through because again, who will stand up to the unlimited effectively resources of the government agencies?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/this-diesel-tesla-got-a-youtuber-in-trouble-with-the-epa/

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Many states do not require any inspections or emissions, and more and more states and counties are going that way.

Regarding you "they won't come for me" statements. That's what every population that ended up oppressed ever has said. "It doesn't matter if they go after people with red hair, my hair is brown" is foolish to think like. Tyranny always starts with those big bad companies and trickles down to the populace at large once there's nobody left to protect them.

Ultimately, this discussion is doomed to get political, because one side takes full trust in the government to be right, and the other side doesn't want the government to be involved in their lives more than they must be.

Well, you could make scientific or legal arguments with citations, instead of invoking inference about people's trust in government. But, "ultimately" you have chosen otherwise. Seems like you are trying to make it political.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The future is always changing. It could happen in the next 4 years, it could never happen. Gut feeling, if we keep on the exact same path we are on right now, they'll go after a YouTuber within the decade.


Nevermind. It's already happened. Looks like they sent him a "stop or we will sue you into oblivion" letter and didn't follow through because again, who will stand up to the unlimited effectively resources of the government agencies?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/this...-with-the-epa/

"Benoit got the letter from the EPA after posting several videos about conversions using a diesel engine. In one, he’s driving an old bread truck around town while it spews black smoke out of its exhaust."

Not the best example.

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The future is always changing. It could happen in the next 4 years, it could never happen. Gut feeling, if we keep on the exact same path we are on right now, they'll go after a YouTuber within the decade.


Nevermind. It's already happened. Looks like they sent him a "stop or we will sue you into oblivion" letter and didn't follow through because again, who will stand up to the unlimited effectively resources of the government agencies?

https://www.vice.com/en/article/this...-with-the-epa/

Thanks for pointing out you have no idea if it will ever happen.

So when you said the EPA will come to my house to get me you actually mean if I have 1.5 million followers on YouTube (it's a business) and I post how to videos of putting an antique diesel engine in my modern car they will tell me to stop? This is again them going after a business.

Seems difficult for many to understand but if you decide to break the law don't post videos of it online.

Benoit got the letter from the EPA after posting several videos about conversions using a diesel engine. In one, he’s driving an old bread truck around town while it spews black smoke out of its exhaust. In another, he’s pulling the engine out of that antique truck and putting it into a Tesla with a totaled engine. The EPA’s warning wasn’t specific, but Benoit was pretty sure one of these two videos got him in trouble.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by David70

... if you decide to break the law don't post videos of it online.

That usually earns a subset of a Darwin Award.

In this case, it could be argued that the EPA gave him a real break by not following up with charges. Sort of undermines the whole 'oppressive government' narrative. "They did me wrong by letting me off with a warning".

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

That usually earns a subset of a Darwin Award.

In this case, it could be argued that the EPA gave him a real break by not following up with charges. Sort of undermines the whole 'oppressive government' narrative. "They did me wrong by letting me off with a warning".

I don't disagree with either point. But it's also worth pointing out that they have already come after an individual. One could likely make the argument they went lenient on him because of his (apparent) big YouTube following, and he likely was made more than financially whole by making a video (or more) about it.

Will the EPA be as lenient on some Joe shmoe without millions of followers? Probably not.

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I don't disagree with either point. One could likely make the argument they went lenient on him because of his (apparent) big YouTube following, and he likely was made more than financially whole by making a video (or more) about it.

Will the EPA be as lenient on some Joe shmoe without millions of followers? Probably not.

Again, the example you gave was not of an individual at his house, it was of a Rich Rebuilds, a YouTube business getting paid to illegally modify a car. The EPA gave this business a warning, nothing more.

More guesses about what they might do some day if they ever go after an individual doesn't mean anything. "One could likely make an argument...", "...he likely was ....", "Probably not." == tons of speculation based on nothing.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by David70

Again, the example you gave was not of an individual at his house, it was of a Rich Rebuilds, a YouTube business getting paid to illegally modify a car. The EPA gave this business a warning, nothing more.

More guesses about what they might do some day if they ever go after an individual doesn't mean anything. "One could likely make an argument...", "...he likely was ....", "Probably not." == tons of speculation based on nothing.

What proof do you have that they will never go after an individual?

The line between a business and a YouTuber is blurry at best. Some channels are definitely businesses, channels owner by a larger media company. Some are just someone doing something thay love, possibly with external help from editors and the like. Who's going to draw the line to say who is and who isn't allowed to be gone after?

It's speculation based on past history. Your "they won't come after individuals" is based on pure denial of it, and blind faith that they will just ome day decide tonstop and get rid of all the people they employ to hunt down and prosecute violators...

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

What proof do you have that they will never go after an individual?

The line between a business and a YouTuber is blurry at best. Some channels are definitely businesses, channels owner by a larger media company. Some are just someone doing something thay love, possibly with external help from editors and the like. Who's going to draw the line to say who is and who isn't allowed to be gone after?

It's speculation based on past history. Your "they won't come after individuals" is based on pure denial of it, and blind faith that they will just ome day decide tonstop and get rid of all the people they employ to hunt down and prosecute violators...

You're the one speculating that they will come after individuals and it is based on nothing. They aren't going after individuals and you believe this might change, as you said, possibly 4 years, possibly never.

The channel you posted has 1.5 million subscribers, it's a business. EPA see's them promoting their business and making money, whether or not they love it or are a small business isn't the point.

https://www.yahoo.com/tech/much-mone...124853437.html

Getting 1 million YouTube subscribers is a huge milestone, and, in practical terms, it often means a creator can earn a full-time living from the platform.

YouTube creators earn money a number of ways, but money from the ads that play in their videos usually constitutes a big chunk of their income. How much does YouTube pay for 1 million subscribers? Finance creator Nate O'Brien said that as a YouTuber with 1 million subscribers he earned $440,000 in a year from the platform.

[BlkGS]

I think it's reasonable to believe that the EPA will go after people based on historical precedents. Does it really matter if what this guy does with YouTube makes him money? I don't think so. He's still an individual that the EPA went after for doing things they don't like. He had the benefit of a platform that enabled him to turn lemons into lemonade, but the EPA has set a percent that they will go after individuals.

If they go after a YouTuber with only 500 subscribers does that somehow matter? Probably only that the EPA is going to have an easier time throwing taxpayer resources at ourselves...

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think it's reasonable to believe that the EPA will go after people based on historical precedents. Does it really matter if what this guy does with YouTube makes him money? I don't think so. He's still an individual that the EPA went after for doing things they don't like. He had the benefit of a platform that enabled him to turn lemons into lemonade, but the EPA has set a percent that they will go after individuals.

If they go after a YouTuber with only 500 subscribers does that somehow matter? Probably only that the EPA is going to have an easier time throwing taxpayer resources at ourselves...

If they ever go after an actual individual go ahead and post it. This company posting a video with their 1.5 million subscribers, hundreds of thousands of video views on one of multiple videos showing they didn't care about EPA issues was asking to for EPA problems.

It's ok with me if you believe what you posted is the same as the EPA showing up at individuals houses, people believe all kinds of things, especially if it fits their agenda.

[2sporty]

I'm seeing a lot of naive thoughts in this thread expressing: "why doesn't the EPA go after this and that instead?". While they should do those things in an ideal world where everyone acts out of the goodness of their hearts, we should not be naive and ask such childish questions.

They will go after whatever their incentives make them go after. Their incentives are usually monetary and political.

Just like the homeless industrial complex is run like a business and increases the homeless population and increases taxes on us and increases the spending on "the homeless problem", the EPA will do the same.

[christianb5s4]

Originally Posted by 2sporty

They will go after whatever their incentives make them go after. Their incentives are usually monetary and political.

Just like the homeless industrial complex is run like a business and increases the homeless population and increases taxes on us and increases the spending on "the homeless problem", the EPA will do the same.

Create the problem, offer themselves as a solution, rinse and repeat.