Cobb Tuning got fined $2.9M: why just them?

[KurtsM5]

There are tons of folks making catless downpipes and tunes, and just Cobb Tuning gets fined?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...efeat-devices/

[ayilar]

Originally Posted by KurtsM5

There are tons of folks making catless downpipes and tunes, and just Cobb Tuning gets fined?
https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a6...efeat-devices/

Not just Cobb -- see further in the article:

"Signs of potential litigation from the EPA have circled Cobb since 2022, when (...) the EPA placed a major focus on aftermarket companies and emissions regulations (and) several other tuners were hit with large penalties for their role in the distribution of those parts."

[Efthreeoh]

Not a political post...

The recent SCOTUS ruling on Chevron vs. Natural Resources Defense Council should be an opportunity for COBB to void this Agreement they were forced to reach with the EPA.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Not a political post...

The recent SCOTUS ruling on Chevron vs. Natural Resources Defense Council should be an opportunity for COBB to void this Agreement they were forced to reach with the EPA.

Absolutely agree.

Not to get political, but it really feels like instead of going after a small number of people and companies modifying cars, the EPA could be doing a lot better at protecting people and the environment by doing something about micro plastics.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Absolutely agree.

Not to get political, but it really feels like instead of going after a small number of people and companies modifying cars, the EPA could be doing a lot better at protecting people and the environment by doing something about micro plastics.

I'd like to see the data that shows Cobb's emissions defeat products actually emit more pollution than a car with 100,000 miles on the original cats.

[///MPhatic]

Old news, but the Cobb State 1 tune ran cleaner than the stock tune on my 2005 WRX (not sure about Stage 2). It was amazing. The place where I got the car dyno'd also provides the sniff-stations with equipment, so they have it there for anyone wanting to see how clean their car runs after a tune (weird that it's mostly idling). Anyway, I agree that there are much bigger fish to fry, and much bigger monies to be had, not sure why they are bothering with Cobb.

[thebmw]

Why aren't they or individual states going after the coal dumping pickup trucks? Not only do they pollute infinitely more, they only exist to inflame, aggravate, annoy, and create dangerous situations.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by ///MPhatic

Old news, but the Cobb State 1 tune ran cleaner than the stock tune on my 2005 WRX (not sure about Stage 2). It was amazing. The place where I got the car dyno'd also provides the sniff-stations with equipment, so they have it there for anyone wanting to see how clean their car runs after a tune (weird that it's mostly idling). Anyway, I agree that there are much bigger fish to fry, and much bigger monies to be had, not sure why they are bothering with Cobb.

It's a fear tactic. They did this in the diesel world too. Everyone knows who Cobb is, they go after the big names like Cobb, and everyone else is like "oh crap". Their hope is it makes an example of Cobb, it the equivalent of a public hanging in the town square. Cobb has enough variety of markets it serves that everyone will hear and be afraid.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Why aren't they or individual states going after the coal dumping pickup trucks? Not only do they pollute infinitely more, they only exist to inflame, aggravate, annoy, and create dangerous situations.

Beyond your complete ignorance about diesels, they already did. They ruined a ton of people's businesses that they worked hard to build up because they sold products that the EPA deemed no good.

As an aside, diesels produce short term pollutants. They dissipate very quickly and break down into harmless constituent particles. They produce a lot less greenhouse gas like CO2, but the EPA has never really liked diesels, and so have effectively regulated them out of the passenger car market in the US. "Rolling coal" is just having too much fuel, effectively running really rich, which i guess is better than running too lean for the motor, but still not ideal.tuning.

[KurtsM5]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Why aren't they or individual states going after the coal dumping pickup trucks? Not only do they pollute infinitely more, they only exist to inflame, aggravate, annoy, and create dangerous situations.

LOL so true.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Why aren't they or individual states going after the coal dumping pickup trucks? Not only do they pollute infinitely more, they only exist to inflame, aggravate, annoy, and create dangerous situations.

Because pickup trucks serve as population control taking out pedestrians in far more effective numbers than cars.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Beyond your complete ignorance about diesels, they already did. They ruined a ton of people's businesses that they worked hard to build up because they sold products that the EPA deemed no good.

As an aside, diesels produce short term pollutants. They dissipate very quickly and break down into harmless constituent particles. They produce a lot less greenhouse gas like CO2, but the EPA has never really liked diesels, and so have effectively regulated them out of the passenger car market in the US. "Rolling coal" is just having too much fuel, effectively running really rich, which i guess is better than running too lean for the motor, but still not ideal.tuning.

Speaking of "ignorance", perhaps you have not heard of soot. Let me help you:
Diesel soot is a black, carbon-based substance that is a byproduct of the incomplete combustion of diesel fuel in diesel engines. It's also known as particulate matter (PM).

They do not breakdown into nothing. It is hardly healthy or good for the environment. According to government estimates, the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times.

No idea where you got the idea that they are harmless.

[pikkagtr]

Here's the most backwards logic from CARB

I have a 250k mile old Honda civic 1.6, and I will produce far worst smog if I replaced that engine with a used on with 150k miles on it

However, CARB will say I am not allowed to put say a 50k mile newer 2.0 K20 from an RSX since it is not smog legal and so I can forced by CARB to pollute
That K20 will most likely cut the emissions, with the correct K20 Cat, by 50%

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Speaking of "ignorance", perhaps you have not heard of soot. Let me help you:
Diesel soot is a black, carbon-based substance that is a byproduct of the incomplete combustion of diesel fuel in diesel engines. It's also known as particulate matter (PM).

They do not breakdown into nothing. It is hardly healthy or good for the environment. According to government estimates, the practice can increase nitrogen oxide emissions as much as 310 times, non-methane hydrocarbons 1,400 times, and carbon monoxide 120 times.

No idea where you got the idea that they are harmless.

Those emissions break down quickly, unlike carbon dioxide that lasts in the atmosphere essentially until a plant consumed it, or it's absorbed by another material.

I'm not saying rolling coal is healthy, just that it's a short term issue. Rolling coal is also a VERY effective "us vs them" mindset that divides our population. Reality is that people rolling coal tend to be in far less developed rural areas, and so it's easy to vilify them to city dwellers who can't understand it or that way of life.

Don't get me wrong, I think rolling coal is as stupid as the next guy (but it some kinda look cool, not as cool as vented NOS, but kinda cool). My point is that neither of these issues (trucks that roll coal or vehicles tuned by Cobb) are actual large scale issues. There's what, maybe 50k trucks in the country tuned for rolling coal? Cobb has had maybe 100k customers over the years? Both of those numbers are probably being hugely overestimated.

Meanwhile we have plastics literally everywhere, our food, our water, our bodies, our unborn children, and what's the EPA doing about that? Not a damn thing. They should be all hands on deck regulating plastics so that they can't be used in applications where they could form micro plastics, but instead they're worried about some little tuning company that all the cars it's ever tuned probably produce less emissions in their lifetimes than one day of Taylor Swifts's jet or Jamie Dimon's yacht.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

Here's the most backwards logic from CARB

I have a 250k mile old Honda civic 1.6, and I will produce far worst smog if I replaced that engine with a used on with 150k miles on it

However, CARB will say I am not allowed to put say a 50k mile newer 2.0 K20 from an RSX since it is not smog legal and so I can forced by CARB to pollute
That K20 will most likely cut the emissions, with the correct K20 Cat, by 50%

You can ot expect anything other than utter stupidity and corruption from CARB.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Because pickup trucks serve as population control taking out pedestrians in far more effective numbers than cars.

I saw that add...

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Those emissions break down quickly, unlike carbon dioxide that lasts in the atmosphere essentially until a plant consumed it, or it's absorbed by another material.

I'm not saying rolling coal is healthy, just that it's a short term issue. Rolling coal is also a VERY effective "us vs them" mindset that divides our population. Reality is that people rolling coal tend to be in far less developed rural areas, and so it's easy to vilify them to city dwellers who can't understand it or that way of life.

Don't get me wrong, I think rolling coal is as stupid as the next guy (but it some kinda look cool, not as cool as vented NOS, but kinda cool). My point is that neither of these issues (trucks that roll coal or vehicles tuned by Cobb) are actual large scale issues. There's what, maybe 50k trucks in the country tuned for rolling coal? Cobb has had maybe 100k customers over the years? Both of those numbers are probably being hugely overestimated.

Meanwhile we have plastics literally everywhere, our food, our water, our bodies, our unborn children, and what's the EPA doing about that? Not a damn thing. They should be all hands on deck regulating plastics so that they can't be used in applications where they could form micro plastics, but instead they're worried about some little tuning company that all the cars it's ever tuned probably produce less emissions in their lifetimes than one day of Taylor Swifts's jet or Jamie Dimon's yacht.

You can keep saying it's a short term issue but I haven't seen anything to support what you are saying -

Diesel exhaust is made up of 2 main parts: gases and soot (particles). Each of these, in turn, is made up of many different substances.

The gas portion of diesel exhaust is mostly carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitric oxide, nitrogen dioxide, sulfur oxides, and hydrocarbons, including polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs).
The soot (particulate) portion of diesel exhaust is made up of particles such as carbon, organic materials (including PAHs), and traces of metallic compounds.
Both the gases and the soot of diesel exhaust contain PAHs.

Exhaust from diesel engines brings a complex mixture of soot and gases to roadways (and nearby homes), cities, farms, and other places. Health concerns about diesel exhaust relate not only to cancer, but also to other health problems such as lung and heart diseases.

https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-p...nd-cancer.html

Industry brought a lot of this problem on themselves. Rolling coal videos had people ask why this is legal, it isn't, they got prosecuted. The never ending "My point is that neither of these issues (trucks that roll coal or vehicles tuned by Cobb) are actual large scale issues." doesn't matter, law was created, it was broken, they got prosecuted, best I can tell they don't have a defense.

Deflecting to plastics? You can try to justify almost anything by bringing up something that is worse.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by David70

You can keep saying it's a short term issue but I haven't seen anything to support what you are saying -



https://www.cancer.org/cancer/risk-p...nd-cancer.html

Industry brought a lot of this problem on themselves. Rolling coal videos had people ask why this is legal, it isn't, they got prosecuted. The never ending "My point is that neither of these issues (trucks that roll coal or vehicles tuned by Cobb) are actual large scale issues." doesn't matter, law was created, it was broken, they got prosecuted, best I can tell they don't have a defense.

Deflecting to plastics? You can try to justify almost anything by bringing up something that is worse.

You could just Google what I said, but here I googled it for you.

"Nitrogen oxides (NOx) break down in a few hours near the surface of the atmosphere, but can take 1–2 weeks to break down in the upper troposphere."

Since none of these vehicles are operating in the troposphere, it's gonna be broken down in a few hours.

I get it, break the law, get prosecuted. The bigger issue is how that's handled, outside of the actual courts. And how we selectively enforce laws.aroajuana is federally illegal, yet we have states where they say they're going to make it as legal as they possibly can. We should be enforcing all our laws that are on the books equally, and through our courts, not some sham court set up by an agency.

[David70]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You could just Google what I said, but here I googled it for you.

"Nitrogen oxides (NOx) break down in a few hours near the surface of the atmosphere, but can take 1–2 weeks to break down in the upper troposphere."

Since none of these vehicles are operating in the troposphere, it's gonna be broken down in a few hours.

I get it, break the law, get prosecuted. The bigger issue is how that's handled, outside of the actual courts. And how we selectively enforce laws.aroajuana is federally illegal, yet we have states where they say they're going to make it as legal as they possibly can. We should be enforcing all our laws that are on the books equally, and through our courts, not some sham court set up by an agency.

NOx isn't gone in hours, it ends up in the rain, ends up in water system-

A wide range of health and welfare effects is caused by NOx emission. Irritation of the lungs is caused by nitrogen dioxide and furthermore, it can lower resistance to respiratory infection. One of the important precursors to acid rain is NOx emission. Acid rain might disturb both aquatic and terrestrial ecosystems. Eutrophication, a problem of excess nutrient enrichment, is caused by atmospheric deposition of nitrogen. Water quality and aquatic environments are greatly affected by this process, the effects of include excessive phytoplankton development, increased irritation and toxic algal blooms, and reduced sunlight penetration resulting in losses of submerged aquatic vegetation, which is hazardous to ecosystems. The contribution to pollutant haze by NO2 and airborne nitrates is also very high.

First deflection was plastic, now marijuana, maybe next is abortion?

[BMWCCA1]

No one bringing up the increase in asthma cases in kids from diesel idling nearby?

[vreihen16]

https://theautowire.com/2024/09/19/w...your-car-next/

"Some automotive publications have borderline celebrated this move. We won’t because we’ve been watching with concern as the EPA has moved from hitting big parts manufacturers and resellers, working its way down to small performance shops and dealerships. What’s next are private enthusiasts at their homes."

[DrVenture]

Th OPs point appears to be "why the selective prosecution". All prosecutions are selective. It is nearly impossible to go after everyone. Too expensive. The notion being that severe penalties make others leery of getting caught too, by negating the profit incentive.

There is no doubt in my mind that anyone selling devices or tunes knows exactly what they are doing. Like the fellow telling the cop "why me", as other cars speed by his traffic stop, the likelihood that he was speeding unknowingly is very slim indeed.

I've done plenty of sketchy things in my lifetime. If/when I got caught I took my lumps. Anything else is whining.