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02-17-2018, 12:28 AM | #45 |
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Most of you certainly know a lot more about cars than I do, but I do know quite a bit about consumer surveys and have no reason to believe that JD Power is getting paid off by companies in some fashion to skew ratings as was implied by at least one post. (How the survey results might be let's say, leveraged by individual manufacturers is another matter. Also while some companies, if not most, subscribe to receive more in-depth reporting of the results, this should have no impact on the results -- JD Power would not last long in the industry if this were the case as opposed to silly self-reported polls with no rigor that pop up on various websites and pretty much useless.)
No survey is "perfect" and whether looking at 3 years of ownership is the most indicative time frame is debatable. There is obviously some level of subjectivity, which yes, possibly means that cars with more (complicated) features might be thought to have more "problems" -- it is noted that things like voice recognition and bluetooth connectivity which were not factors 10 years ago are among the current more problematic areas -- and no, these "problems" have not been objectively measured in a controlled clinical environment. Also, there is no mention of the variability around these ratings, that is, one brand may have many with no problems & many with many problems and end up with similar scores as as another brand that more typically has a few issues but no reports with none or with a lot of problems. But in any case there's almost always going to be an anecdotal observation that might be atypical or an anomaly. However, assuming the methodology (e.g., sampling, questionnaire design, survey platform, etc.) is mostly consistent year-on-year this should be a fairly good indicator of relative and trended "scores" of perceived problems per brand based upon 3 year old cars. What I have not seen anyone mention that could perhaps "distort" these trends is product/model mix for a brand based upon new/refresh model cycles or perhaps even cost mix: for example would you expect a BMW "sample" to vary if one year had a new 3 series vs. another time frame which included a new X5. Or comparing a year when there were a lot of completely new models and/or a new engine vs. a year with perhaps just a few LCI's and no new tech/engine designs. Also BTW as surveys migrated from mail paper surveys in the "old" days to online surveys and now, more recently people are perhaps taking those online surveys on a small smartphone screen rather than a laptop, that could possibly impact trending and have disproportionate impact on one brand vs. another. Last edited by montpier; 02-17-2018 at 05:26 PM.. Reason: "implied" more accurate than "suggested" |
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02-17-2018, 01:01 AM | #46 |
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Point taken. But if you have enough surveys -- like JD Power does -- everybody wins something.
Best ashtrays Best seat backs Best rear seat armrests Obviously these are not the real categories, but JD Power has enough categories so that everyone wins. (The "participation trophies" I was referring to above.) And who selects these categories (and pays for them)? Why the manufacturers.
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02-17-2018, 08:29 AM | #50 |
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This is pointless. Too many issues with the cars will be attributed to neglect, under maintaining cars, abuse, improper repairs/poor workmanship and modifications without prior knowledge by the current owner. The cars will have been passed on to too many new owners to have any relevance pertaining to the problems with the car. Example- the first oil change went 2-5k mike over, along with the rest. Now the car has an engine related issue and it's the fault of a previous owner.
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02-17-2018, 08:41 AM | #51 |
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This chart makes it seem like Lexus is synonymous with Luxury, which it's far from.
And Buick? The only time you hear of that brand is in advertisements during golf season.
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02-17-2018, 08:53 AM | #52 | |
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02-17-2018, 09:00 AM | #53 | |
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02-17-2018, 10:07 AM | #54 | ||
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02-17-2018, 10:27 AM | #55 |
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02-17-2018, 10:58 AM | #56 |
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Not surprised to see Land Rover struggling at the bottom - seems like every other new LR I see on the road is on the back of a pick up truck!
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02-17-2018, 10:58 AM | #57 |
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02-17-2018, 11:06 AM | #58 |
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02-17-2018, 12:48 PM | #59 | |
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02-17-2018, 02:04 PM | #60 |
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Initial Quality surveys mean very little. It is basically saying how many small gremlins you have to take your car in for, big deal.
I want to know how well the car does after the warrante expires. For this in my experience, Honda has been good but they rust so whats the point when the car disintegrates. Volvo's have a couple of small issues, but they are easy to fix, parts are cheap and the engines, bodies and transmissions are bullet proof, so they get my nod. I have zero rust on my 2 Volvos and they are plenty old My BMW so far has been bulletproof and is an amazing driving experience. I have many friends with Hyundai and they have been horrible, blow diffs, blown turbo engines. They aren't much cheaper than a comparable Honda so why bother. Yes Porsche may have great initial reliability, they drive amazing, but when something fails the parts are very expensive. This survey doesn't tell you that even though i Love them. |
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02-17-2018, 06:25 PM | #62 | |
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The categories and selected time frame or what constitutes a "problem" may be arbitrary and the rankings based upon differences that technically-speaking might that not really be statistically significant. But at the end of the day, for those of you who do have broad exposure to different cars over time: would you tend to say that, let's say, if you purchase a Jaguar you'll probably become more familiar with the service waiting area than if you had purchased perhaps a Lexus? Or more appropriate for this forum; I'm certainly no expert having only owned three BMW's (2003, 2005, 2011) and about to pick up a fourth, but for those of you with considerably more experience -- leaving aside issues such as whether still offering MT on some models, etc.: Do you feel that BMW build quality/reliability has improved over time and now comparable to brands like Lexus/Infiniti which at one point years ago did open up a perceived quality gap vs. the German premium marques? Have BMW electronics and iDrive become more user-friendly and less quirky? Have the Korean makes stepped up their game and eventually achieve more prestige status and command higher price value? And does this seem to be reflected in something like the JD Power ratings over an extended period of time? While year-on-year ratings might uncover a major issue for a particular model year one would expect/hope that manufacturer service reporting would have flagged this much earlier. But it's longer term trends and how the brands are performing vs. key competitors that tends to provide the real value for these kinds of syndicated tracking surveys. |
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02-17-2018, 07:06 PM | #63 | |
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As for iDrive, there's not much to say. BMW more than any other brand has done more to their infotainment system to make it easily the best in the market. While everyone jumped on the CarPlay bandwagon, BMW continued to improve iDrive. At least with my experience, where BMW ranks pretty much reflects my experiences. Last edited by TheBingoBalls; 02-17-2018 at 07:11 PM.. |
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02-17-2018, 07:13 PM | #64 |
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02-17-2018, 08:48 PM | #66 |
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