|
|
Post Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
09-19-2022, 01:45 PM | #89 |
First Lieutenant
609
Rep 373
Posts |
I think what frustrates many is that they are having something forced on them (be it better or not - let's leave that out of it for this point). They look around and see others (be they countries or individuals) who are not going to be beholden to the same standards. China, India, Mexico and great swaths of Eastern Europe have no way (nor intention) of adhering to the same rigorous emission standards the rest of the developed world is implementing or soon will; despite the fact that they are some of the largest contributors.
And just recently, there was some data released on how much emissions certain celebrities are responsible for with their frequent private jet usage; we are talking the equivalent of hundreds of people's emissions for daily-driven modern ICE cars attributed to a single person's demand for fast and convenient travel. Yet these are the same people telling everyone else they are the ones that need to sacrifice and change their lifestyle. I lump many people in this forum in the same category that are wealthy enough to own a host of inefficient, high-performance ICE cars and belittle others because they show any hesitance to switching to EVs. When you can afford a couple fun ICE cars that remain parked and are only driven on the track or weekends while you daily an EV, it's easy to look at the future with optimism. For those of us who can only afford one car, it's a tougher pill to swallow. The companies that make all of these vehicles, while many are starting to move towards more energy efficient and emission-minded manufacturing processes, are of a similar mind - but to add insult to injury, they are the ones that stand to gain from everyone ditching ICE and adopting EVs. Personal transportation is low hanging fruit because it is the most visible, and can enrich corporations the most. What about tractor trailer semi trucks? Shipping barges? Airplanes? Where is the call to arms for heavy industry to clean up their act? It's nowhere - and that's because the optics are not favorable and those opportunities are not lucrative enough. My prediction: through GREAT investments and suffering by tax payers and the middle class, we will get close to EV adoption targets. And there will be a near negligible improvement to climate change and emissions. Those who are polluting will continue to do so and the corporations will continue to profit, laughing on their way to the bank. But everyone will be able to say "at least we tried" - which will be worth little in the end. |
Appreciate
4
|
09-19-2022, 01:48 PM | #90 | |||||
Lieutenant General
19123
Rep 14,188
Posts Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
How much did it cost to replace the battery in 2012?
Quote:
Quote:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...id/7935230001/ The battery was out of production and had to be purchased from a 3rd party. I addressed the issue of legacy parts here: Quote:
Quote:
This article claims the current cost to produce a new EV battery is $128 per kilowatt-hour. That article you posted predicted for 2020, it's now 2021 and we are at $128/kwh. Additionally, adjusted for inflation, the $750/kwh in 2012 dollars is actually $967/kwh in 2022 dollars. That's an 87% drop in price per kwh. Quote:
To clarify, I'm no expert in this. I'm just taking what's available and doing the math. I might get the math wrong once and awhile, or I misread/didn't read completely, but I'll own up to it and attempt to fix it. I'm open to accepting that batteries cost more now per kwh than a decade ago, but I simply haven't seen anything yet to indicate that. I spend my time in threads like these because they tend to become echo chambers and people need to know that we don't have to take everything at face value. Even going down this route with conflicting numbers, it proves that the issue is actually more complicated than it appears. So whether I'm being the devil's advocate or truely believe that the EV will save the world, it doesn't matter. It only matters that we not all think the same, and we don't have to.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 Last edited by jmg; 09-19-2022 at 01:57 PM.. |
|||||
Appreciate
1
chad86tsi1605.00 |
09-19-2022, 02:04 PM | #91 | |
Lieutenant General
19123
Rep 14,188
Posts Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
Quote:
Having grown up in the 70's and 80's of Los Angeles smog, emission standards have had a significant impact to local air quality alone. Even if climate change won't be affected, cleaner air is simply better. Couple that with adoption of cleaner sources of power, and I just see an improvement of quality of life overall. Will it be perfect? No, but it will be closer than we are now. In my opinion of course.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:09 PM | #92 |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
I hate to break the news to EV fans as I appreciate them as well. Heck, I love less noise rolling through the neighborhood. However, battery costs will never go down. When is the last time you’ve seen auto manufacturers drop prices. Anyone who thinks ev battery prices will decrease is a fool. You don’t understand the rare earth metals that are used and how expensive they are to strip mine…hence “rare”. Battery prices will only increase. Check this article out with comment from the IEA. Also, how is the electrical grid going to handle this influx of EVs? Good luck!
https://cheddar.com/media/evs-gobble...to-keep-up.amp |
Appreciate
2
chad86tsi1605.00 black_beast7.50 |
09-19-2022, 02:15 PM | #93 | |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
09-19-2022, 02:17 PM | #94 | |
Major General
7546
Rep 7,479
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:20 PM | #95 | |
Lieutenant General
19123
Rep 14,188
Posts Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
Quote:
No, of course not. It means I am a flawed human being. Sorry you don't get to force your standards on others and tell them what they do and do not care about based on their actions just because you disagree with them.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:25 PM | #96 |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
Some of you EV evangelist are absolutely in denial of the environmental ramifications from the beginning to end. My Uncle travels all over the World to help setup/audit mining sites. How would you feel, if kids and very poorly paid folks were doing all the nasty work and nearby villages/towns are being polluted from strip mining operations feel. People just don’t want to know and drive around in an ev thinking they are actually making a difference. I bet not a single one of you know who’s dismantling all the end of use batteries to be recycled either. Do some real research, it’s not exactly non-toxic working conditions. EVs are not the answer folks, the answer is protesting countries like China who are building a massive amount of coal plants that far exceeds anywhere in the World and India who literally dumps trash in rivers. I’ve been there, and it’s pretty damn disgusting in many areas. Just and fyi, during the shutdown CO2 actually went up, answer that if IcE is so bad
|
Appreciate
1
Cos270608.50 |
09-19-2022, 02:26 PM | #97 | ||
Lieutenant General
19123
Rep 14,188
Posts Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
This is a political ideal and I get it. On paper, it sounds good, let the free market thrive. However, oil is also heavily subsidized, and major car manufacturers have been bailed out in the past... if you think government shouldn't be involved, then GM and Chrysler would likely not exist today. The "free market" is free until it collapses, then regulations come in and save it. Then its free for awhile until something happens again. Rinse repeat.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:29 PM | #98 | ||
First Lieutenant
609
Rep 373
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
And my earlier comments weren't necessarily aimed at you, you've been pretty polite and cordial. Last edited by Cos270; 09-19-2022 at 02:37 PM.. |
||
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:32 PM | #100 | |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:34 PM | #101 | |||
Captain
1605
Rep 787
Posts |
I haven't found one for 2012, but found one for a 2015: For my 2015 Volt, it would have cost $8,887.14 for a remanufactured high voltage battery, and $1,030.88 labor, plus tax: Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm starting to wonder why you are are missing my point on this. These cars are designed to become obsolete too quickly. It makes them disposable, and that is subsequently very wasteful. The idea is to save the planet, not kick the can down the road. A 100Kw battery may cost $17K today, $15K in 2 years, but $45K in 10 when when you actually need to replace it because the tech is then antiquated. Last edited by chad86tsi; 09-19-2022 at 02:41 PM.. |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:41 PM | #102 | |
Brigadier General
3003
Rep 3,603
Posts |
Quote:
__________________
Current: 2018 Camaro SS 1LE, 2023 Colorado ZR2. Former: BMW 428i Gran Coupe.
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:52 PM | #103 |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
Yep, but it’s between 6x that for Ev batteries and expected to increase up to 30x that for EV batteries in the near future. https://cheddar.com/media/evs-gobble-up-rare-earth-minerals-as-miners-struggle-to-keep-up.amp
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:55 PM | #104 | |||
Lieutenant General
19123
Rep 14,188
Posts Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
Quote:
Quote:
I realize that the cost of older batteries can make older models obsolete or too costly to repair. Like I've said in other posts, I don't think owning an EV long term is attractive right now due to this. However, that really wasn't my original point: Quote:
Essentially, what I think could happen is this: EV batteries get standardized much like the batteries we put in our remote controls. For instance, a EV battery standard could make it possible for a 2023 EV to accept a new battery in 2033, much like a TV remote from 1980 still accepts a AAA battery from 2022 and still take advantage of the technological achievements in said battery (rechargeability etc). Supply for legacy batteries wouldn't be such an issue.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 Last edited by jmg; 09-19-2022 at 03:00 PM.. |
|||
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:58 PM | #105 | |
Lieutenant General
19123
Rep 14,188
Posts Drives: G82 M4C X-Drive Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Orange County, CA
|
Quote:
Can we recycle oil effectively? Honest question, I don't know.
__________________
2022 G82///M4 Competition X-Drive - KW-HAS, EBC Bluestuff, Millway Race Camber Plates, Cup2 Connect*, PSI High Flow Midpipe, Lightweight Front Lip, M Perf Flow Through Wing Previous • 2018 F80 ///M3 CS • 2016 F80 ///M3 IG: Raging_G82 |
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 02:59 PM | #106 | |
Captain
1605
Rep 787
Posts |
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
09-19-2022, 03:08 PM | #107 | |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
Quote:
We currently have 240 coal plants and the administration wants to get more closed asap while China currently has 1,110 and continue to build more. They will not phase down in 2030, absolute lie. So, while we make our citizens suffer with high inflation and pushing people into more expensive EVs that most can’t afford unless they take out a 84mo. loan, other countries will just laugh at us. Let’s us not forget how many US jobs will be lost to manufactures converting to EV building. Ford has already announced ev’s to be built in Mexico and laying off jobs here. Well done America well done Last edited by Angelo_GraysonMiniBMW; 09-19-2022 at 03:41 PM.. |
|
09-19-2022, 03:11 PM | #108 | ||||
Captain
1605
Rep 787
Posts |
the battery is 16KWh, and costs $30K to replace, so that's abut $1875
Quote:
I don't want to embrace a disposable solution to achieve a more green status. It's antithetical to me. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I want the same future you do, I really mean that very sincerely. I'm just trying to be realistic. We have limitations to work around. |
||||
Appreciate
1
Cos270608.50 |
09-19-2022, 03:23 PM | #109 | ||
First Lieutenant
609
Rep 373
Posts |
Quote:
Quote:
I actually read not to long ago that several companies are looking to integrate the battery back into the chassis of the vehicle, so you have a fully-integrated, load-bearing structure with fewer components. If that becomes the new norm, then if you need a new battery, you literally have no choice but to buy a new car haha. |
||
Appreciate
1
chad86tsi1605.00 |
09-19-2022, 03:39 PM | #110 | |
Lieutenant
235
Rep 425
Posts |
Quote:
A secondary use of the used oil is to burn it for energy. Large industrial boilers can efficiently burn the used oil with minimum pollution. As a result, some used oil is sent to power plants or cement kilns to be burned as fuel. On a lesser scale, small quantities of used oil are burned in specially designed heaters to provide space heating for small businesses. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|