Still want an EV? (NO POLITICS)

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

which part is incorrect?

The insurance company does not need to prove you did the work wrong on purpose. In fact, if it is discovered that you did any work yourself, and you are not licensed or insured to do such work, any claim you make will rightly be denied. (I am a lawyer for an insurance company.)

[M5Rick]

Think that sorts out who can and can't wire up a ''full EV'' home charger, you have to pay a qualified electrician and get a certificate of conformity to show the insurance co. in case the worse happens.

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Think that sorts out who can and can't wire up a ''full EV'' home charger, you have to pay a qualified electrician and get a certificate of conformity to show the insurance co. in case the worse happens.

I mean, you *can* and I know people who have, but if an investigator finds your DIY piggyback charger caused a fire, not only are you SoL, but you could be liable for any other damage it causes, like for instance it burns your neighbor’s property or causes damage to city utility lines. Not worth the risk, imo, but I'm not an actuary.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Guvna

I mean, you *can* and I know people who have, but if an investigator finds your DIY piggyback charger caused a fire, not only are you SoL, but you could be liable for any other damage it causes, like for instance it burns your neighbor’s property or causes damage to city utility lines. Not worth the risk, imo, but I'm not an actuary.

Easiest solution is to buy a gas car without this time bomb. What if an EV burns in a garage connected to house with charger not being used then it's another case for investigator, what then.

[lakefront]

If you can afford a brand new EV, should't you be able to afford to pay an electrician to properly wire the charger?

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Easiest solution is to buy a gas car without this time bomb. What if an EV burns in a garage connected to house with charger not being used then it's another case for investigator, what then.

Your first sentence is definitely true, but I was talking about diy chargers in houses, not the car. If the car catches fire and burns your house down, you would have to sue the manufacturer by claiming a design defect or the like. (And it may be considered a cost of doing business, like how Ford handled the Pinto design defects).

But if it is obvious that the fire started at the charger and you installed it yourself, you will have an uphill battle convincing your insurance company that you did it properly (and it was not the proximate cause of the fire) despite having no training, skills, or experience in doing so. Knowing most insurance companies, they will dump all liability directly into your lap for any possible reason not to pay out.

[medphysdave]

Remember when side curtain airbags were an option and people would leave it unchecked to save money.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by lakefront

If you can afford a brand new EV, should't you be able to afford to pay an electrician to properly wire the charger?

Yes. You can also use a regular outlet depending on how much you drive, that’s what I do and it’s perfectly fine for my use. You can also plug it into a 220v dryer outlet. My laundry room exists to the garage so I can plug it into that pretty easily (never need to in my case). Many homes have the washer and dryer in the garage.

However none of those options are sensational anti EV fear mongering so he’s incapable of mentioning them.

[mjr24]

Permits aren’t required here for doing EV charge installs but I’m having the electrician pull one anyways for piece of mind. I have kids, it’s not worth a fire risk because of something being done incorrectly.

It’s also not something I’d risk wiring myself….for the reasons above and for the insurance reasons stated. It’s common sense insurance won’t cover something you aren’t qualified or licensed to do….especially if it burns your house down.

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Permits aren’t required here for doing EV charge installs but I’m having the electrician pull one anyways for piece of mind. I have kids, it’s not worth a fire risk because of something being done incorrectly.

It’s also not something I’d risk wiring myself….for the reasons above and for the insurance reasons stated. It’s common sense insurance won’t cover something you aren’t qualified or licensed to do….especially if it burns your house down.

At least you have someone to sue if an electrician does it and it catches fire.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Guvna

The insurance company does not need to prove you did the work wrong on purpose. In fact, if it is discovered that you did any work yourself, and you are not licensed or insured to do such work, any claim you make will rightly be denied. (I am a lawyer for an insurance company.)

It is dependent upon local county/state statutes. I installed the entire electrical system in my 26 x 30 detatched garage. The entire 400-amp system, from the breaker panel, aught wire up the side of the building for the service connect, to the system ground rod, and all the 120V and 240V circuits, circuits for the heating system and lighting. In my county you do not need to be a licensed electrician to perform electrical work. As long as the system is installed to code and passes an electrical system inspection by the county, the system is as good as if a licensed electrician installed it.

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

As long as the system is installed to code and passes an electrical system inspection by the county, the system is as good as if a licensed electrician installed it.

Correct. I was replying to the previous post that did not imply passing an inspection.

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

It is dependent upon local county/state statutes. I installed the entire electrical system in my 26 x 30 detatched garage. The entire 400-amp system, from the breaker panel, aught wire up the side of the building for the service connect, to the system ground rod, and all the 120V and 240V circuits, circuits for the heating system and lighting. In my county you do not need to be a licensed electrician to perform electrical work. As long as the system is installed to code and passes an electrical system inspection by the county, the system is as good as if a licensed electrician installed it.

I think you nailed it. As long as you pull the correct permits and pass inspection it's up to the local statutes. I haven't tried to pull a permit, but it may require a licensed contractor to perform the work before it will be granted. Then there is another layer. HOA. I'm playing with that level now. It may be worse than dealing with city permits

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Guvna

The insurance company does not need to prove you did the work wrong on purpose. In fact, if it is discovered that you did any work yourself, and you are not licensed or insured to do such work, any claim you make will rightly be denied. (I am a lawyer for an insurance company.)

must depend on the policy. Every policy ive had will cover work, regardless who did it, as long as it was done properly.

most of the building departments around here dont require a license if the homeowner is the one performing the work. And theres a good chunk that dont require permitting as the homeowner for something minor like an EV Charger install. That doesnt mean you can just install however you feel, you obviously should still install correctly.

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Guvna

Correct. I was replying to the previous post that did not imply passing an inspection.

you dont need an inspection to do work properly and to code.

my post didnt say anything about not doing the work right. in fact, it specifically says "if you cant wire it up properly yourself, you shouldnt be doing it."

[Guvna]

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

you dont need an inspection to do work properly and to code.

my post didnt say anything about not doing the work right. in fact, it specifically says "if you cant wire it up properly yourself, you shouldnt be doing it."

It also says:

Originally Posted by TheWatchGuy

unless it is proven you did it wrong on purpose.

which is the part I was responding to.

You are free to do whatever you think you can, depending on how you interpret your state, local, or policy provisions. Lets just hope you aren’t wrong

Edit: Since apparently this is a contentious issue (and you aren’t just being pedantic), let me illustrate the situation: a DIY homeowner installs a charger in their garage which the homeowner believes meets whatever code, but does not consult a licensed electrician or have it inspected by whatever state authority. A fire then starts at the point where the charger was installed by the homeowner and the policy issuer discovers the charger was installed by the homeowner and has not been verified in any way to be compliant. Are you seriously arguing that the policy issuer will ignore this and honor a claim for damages due to the fire?

[zx10guy]

State Farm pulls all EV chargers from their campuses.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by lakefront

If you can afford a brand new EV, should't you be able to afford to pay an electrician to properly wire the charger?

I thought it is the opposite. Ppl buying EV because they want to cut down the cost. No need to pay for gas anymore. I may be wrong. I am ICE guy and I know nothing about EV

[TheWatchGuy]

Originally Posted by Guvna

It also says:



which is the part I was responding to.

You are free to do whatever you think you can, depending on how you interpret your state, local, or policy provisions. Lets just hope you aren’t wrong

Edit: Since apparently this is a contentious issue (and you aren’t just being pedantic), let me illustrate the situation: a DIY homeowner installs a charger in their garage which the homeowner believes meets whatever code, but does not consult a licensed electrician or have it inspected by whatever state authority. A fire then starts at the point where the charger was installed by the homeowner and the policy issuer discovers the charger was installed by the homeowner and has not been verified in any way to be compliant. Are you seriously arguing that the policy issuer will ignore this and honor a claim for damages due to the fire?

Whats the cause of the fire? Faulty wiring or undersized wiring, undersized breaker or breaker installed wrong, charger malfunction, breaker malfunction, something else?

with the amount of resources, including the NEC books, available, there is no reason to not know the proper install. If the homeowner went with smaller wire because its cheaper, or a smaller and/or unprotected breaker due to cost, that would be purposely not installing properly and they could be on the hook for it.

However, looking through my past policies, even if bad wiring was the cause, ensuing losses would be covered. So house burns down because of bad wiring. The fire is a covered loss.

Since you are adamant it isnt covered and you are an insurance lawyer, what percent of cases have you seen where they didnt cover a claim due to DIY work?

[IanH]

Some people are permit pushers and dont understand that the jobs which "licensed electricians" and "inspectors" do are not hard to do competently as a home owner.

Main reason to hire a contractor/electrician/plumber is to save time and not have to deal with the hazardous aspects in various areas.

That said, a good level 2 fast charger install is cheap if you find someone who does them a lot. No reason to DIY when the whole job including the charger can be had for around $1200. ($400-500 for install)

[medphysdave]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

I thought it is the opposite. Ppl buying EV because they want to cut down the cost. No need to pay for gas anymore. I may be wrong. I am ICE guy and I know nothing about EV

It's kinda comical really. I'm getting an EV out of curiosity. I think trucks benefit the most from full EV. Who cares if you have a 10k lbs truck. I think cars and SUVs are better as PHEV. But who knows. It also depends on each person's use case.
Anyhow. My point was going to be that if you have to pay 3k to 5k to upgrade your home for EV. That's a lot of gas

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by eugenebmw

I thought it is the opposite. Ppl buying EV because they want to cut down the cost. No need to pay for gas anymore. I may be wrong. I am ICE guy and I know nothing about EV

I mean some people may use that to justify their purchase, but IMO if you’re buying anything more expensive than a used corolla you’re not REALLY trying to save money.

I have an EV because I love it. Even if it cost me MORE to charge it than it would to put gas I would still own it.