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Yesterday, 01:50 PM | #89 | |
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That said, there isn't much you can do to electric steering racks. I run my tires at a lower pressure (2.2 bar front, and 2.0 rear) which definitely helps with the steering (and handling), but I am not sure what else one could do other than stiffen various bushings. I've not driven a modern car with an electric rack that feels all that connected. |
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Yesterday, 01:53 PM | #90 |
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I agree for the most part, aside from the Macan or Cayenne being any kind of 5 series competitor. SUVs are a different category and don't compete on dynamics due to fundamental issues in the chassis that can't be resolved.
BMW is definitely making some of the best vehicles it has ever made. I find most of the line up quite attractive, both in and out. |
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Yesterday, 02:17 PM | #91 | |
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Yesterday, 02:39 PM | #92 |
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I thought my G82 was certainly a better all around car than all my F8x models. For me however, the slight boost in performance (had a model launch Comp, not Xdrive model which is where the generational performance boost is felt) for me didn’t make up for what I just couldn’t get past in the looks department. G82 was much better planted than even my current F82 CS, it was nice not having the wheels spin through the first two gears. The car also hid the weight penalty well and the S58 was of course fantastic.
Sort of why I’m so sour. I liked the way the car drove, but to me no matter how fast it was it could never outrun the ugly exterior. For me the interior was a tossup, I prefer the analog gauges and layout of the F8x, but the G8x carbon buckets are incredible. Once again subjective, and I can certainly understand why some like the newer cars. |
Yesterday, 03:33 PM | #93 | ||||||
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2) I'm not talking about the F80. I wasn't a big fan of the F80. I'm talking about the G80. Quote:
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I agree that some of the rawness has been lost with all this refinement and luxury. BMW also seems to be saving some of the rawness for its limited models (M4 CSL, M5 CS, etc). But all cars are trending that way in general. I do wish my M3 had a bit more rawness to it. The chassis is superb, the steering is actually pretty good (for a modern BMW), it's got tons of power, and it's actually one of the lightest cars in its class (the RS5 and the C63 are significantly heavier). I've actually replaced some of the rubber bushings with stiffer bushings to get a more direct mechanical feel. I'm in the process of replacing the transmission carrier bushing with a stiffer one as well to get crisper shifting with a more gated feel. So I understand the want for that rawness. But to say that BMW is getting worse while its competitors are getting better is just a ridiculous statement.
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Yesterday, 03:38 PM | #94 | |
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For me, it's obviously objectively an excellent car, and I happen to like the looks - after a few mods - stock I'm not a fan of it, the stance is atrocious and accentuates the grill in all the wrong ways.... but once you fix the stance, get an aftermarket grill and some wheels, I think it looks insanely good and has tons of road presence. Although some people might call that putting lipstick on a pig
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Yesterday, 04:01 PM | #95 |
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@ Mirob & wtwo3 -
1) It finished last in dynamics by far. 21/25 for fun to drive while others got 23 and 25, and 49 out of 60 on dynamics while others got 51, 55, and 55. 2) G80 is more competent than F80 and receiving better praise, but didn't solve any of the disconnected feeling IMO. 3) That Car Magazine UK rewiew, along with the Motortrend one, don't cite much about the specifics of the cars against eachother. They mention the Cadillac, or Alfa, had more charisma and were fun but there's not much direct feedback which makes it tough to judge. I also rate them and Motortrend as more of the casual drivers while C&D, EVO, and Road&Track are higher quality. And to me, it still doesn't matter if bmw is getting worse or competitors are better. They simply don't have the uniqueness and prowess that they have previously, and that comes down to the feedback they provide. Look at this quote from EVO in the giulia vs m3 comparison: "So that’s all very neat then. Except that this is evo, so… ‘From a professional road tester’s perspective the BMW trumps the Alfa, but as an enthusiast I know that in my heart I love the Giulia,’ says Dickie, glancing fondly at the Giulia, streaked in unseasonal road salt. Jordan calls the big red one ‘joyful’ despite giving the nod to the M3 overall ‘by a hair’. The appeal of the M3 grows on you, and will probably continue to do so over time, but having the Quadrifoglio in your life is to possess something that feels truly exotic, that makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside every time you see and hear it, that brings the task of driving for fun truly alive. You’ll always look for the long, interesting way home in the Alfa, in a way you only occasionally would in the others. That’s not just the hallmark of a great car, it’s the stuff of an evo legend. Once again, I stand by my statement. I never said BMW was bad. I never said they didn't make objectively fantastic cars. Could your G80 absolutely cook an E90 M3? Could an M340i absolutely beat down on a 335i? Could an XM lap faster than a Cayenne S? Yes, Yes, and Yes. It is not about numbers and speed and road tests where I'm criticizing BMW, it's in feedback. And if you don't think so, you should probably spend more time in an E chassis platform I said the below to start the thread, and I maintain it despite your efforts to show how M3's have won comparison tests or competitors are bad etc etc: "OP is right. BMW is still a good manufacturer but not at all special like they once were - that specialness was from the feeling, not from numbers." Last edited by scotthilly; Yesterday at 04:02 PM.. Reason: spelling |
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Yesterday, 04:03 PM | #96 | |
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Yesterday, 04:31 PM | #97 |
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This is what I agree with. My point is that to say BMW is getting worse while competitors are getting better is a ridiculous statement to make.
You still can have specialness in BMW - I find my G80 to absolutely be special and gives me joy every time I take it out. Fun factor is there 10/10. The ability to row my own gears, paired with a twin turbo S58 which builds power progressively and with the satisfaction similar to a naturally aspirated motor, and steering/handling which inspires me to want to take corners aggressively. In fact I just picked up my daughter from school and took the M3 out and it was an absolute delight. I also previously owned an m340i and that was more consistent with what you're describing - it's fast but not necessarily "fun". But then again, nothing else in the same class as the m340i is any more fun.
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Yesterday, 04:39 PM | #98 | |
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Fair enough man, enjoyed the banter! I will say I do really respect that bmw puts a stick in the g80. And despite some of my complaints - I'm someone who wants a manual sedan from within the last 10 years. My only options are the M3, and the Blackwing twins. So while I laud competitors like Alfa, they aren't going the extra mile. I have a friend with a 330i thp msport, which, aside from the engine, is identical to an m340i. It is nowhere near as satisfying as honestly even the F chassis cars. I have some, but not tons of time in a G80 though I actually did enjoy the F80 I drove a lot. I think, and I'm curious how you feel, that where BMW suffered the most is in the basic cars. That c&d test where a 430i xdrive vs a stinger and a5 and the 4 series got last... brutal. I love this article so much - https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-65-1-roa0813/ - and perfectly encapsulated my thoughts. I highly reccomend this video on youtube too (Zygrene, the creator, is awesome) - . You used to have a base 325i or 330i and it'd be still be a good sport sedan. I'm now in the place where I choose Hyundai products (g70) or base ct4's on a 330i.. and it makes me a bit depressed. And that's where my frustration lies too... okay, the g80 is good, and it's 90k. Normal-ish people can afford a 3 series, but you've got to really be doing well to make an M3. And that's sad. |
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Yesterday, 04:43 PM | #99 | |
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Yesterday, 04:54 PM | #100 | |
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Yesterday, 04:58 PM | #101 | |
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I actually don't mind the steering in my G31, generally speaking--with one condition applied: with proper tire pressure, there is decent feel for an e-rack, and it's weighty even in comfort. At sticker pressures it feels overly quick and nearly devoid of any road feedback. That said, the pressures they recommend are needed to meet fleet emissions goals. |
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Yesterday, 05:01 PM | #102 |
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Yesterday, 05:24 PM | #103 | |
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I hope you enjoy your car! |
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Yesterday, 06:55 PM | #104 | |
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Yesterday, 07:55 PM | #105 | |
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Today, 06:17 PM | #106 |
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