BMW i Vision Dynamics unveiled at Frankfurt IAA!

[Chihuahua]

Love it. Would buy.

[BMWRL]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

At least Tesla knows how to hide the Plugin.

Either way it has the cutout for the plugin, I see lots of Teslas where I live it has it also.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by BMWRL

Either way it has the cutout for the plugin, I see lots of Teslas where I live it has it also.

Tesla hides the Plugin in the taillight and when closed it is forgotten.

[ciaranob]

Like the overall direction but truly dislike
1) ridiculous cartoonesque hitler mustache grill - something a 2-year old would draw,
2) the fact that we need the blasted hockey stick on everything now (except Z4 concept - excellent!) and to a lesser extent
3) the blasted vertical edge design (mirroring the cursed vertical X7 hockey stick) on the front edges of the front fender.
As someone else already said there is something seriously flawed in the design department that if it continues will likely turn me away over time but a concept so patience I guess .

[Tallest]

Still on the fence on the grilles, but they do need to figure out a way to integrate this into a car that doesnt need radiator grilles as such. This aint bad, may be less "toothy".. That said, the door design element is superb, noone has done it, very recognizable, very cool design idea. It resonates well with electric design, like those wires running down a micro chip or smth. Very cool. May be could use a bit more complications on the body work, a bit too smooth for BMWs Im used to which are a bit more shapely. Sitll, its one of their nicest concept in years and I can imagine this on the road in 5 years without much changes (if I8 and I3 are anything to go by, they still look like concept cars on the road!).

[Fundguy1]

Face it. A grill has been a staple and a hallmark for ice cars for a century. Ev designers don't know what to do with it now they don't have to cool a radiator. Result, hideous front ends. Rest of the car looks nice. They finally are getting the rear ends nice. I'd like the car from the firewall back, but still 100% hate ev cars. Hybrids for extra power for front wheels, great. Rest is just a waste of research resources. How much better would a 3 or 5 be if they'd put these resources into those instead. How great would the m5 be with all the ice hp at the read and two electrics at the front? Looks, performance. BMW is becoming a jack of all trades, master of none. Ev tech should be used to improve the existing and future cars, not change them. Change doesn't mean better or superior. Still waiting on how they're superior or why they should be the future.

[Z-Bass]

Love it so far! Gorgeous lines.

But what is that butterfly/bowtie thingy? yikes...

[DCG]

I all about moving into the future with cool reliable tech with style and sophistication.

But what the hell is up with the huge fugly kidney grills BMW designers ???

[hufington]

Soon BMW is going to decide about the size of the roundels for each series so that the complete front of the cars consist of the roundels and the respective cars will be attached to the back of the roundels.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Hybrids for extra power for front wheels, great. Rest is just a waste of research resources.

I wholeheartedly disagree, but I understand where you are coming from, I used to think the same thing until I test drove an i3 an fell in love with it's idiosyncrasies. After driving it for over a month, it's the best commuter I've eer had. Of course, I still have a decent ICE for weekends.

[MightyMouseTech]

Originally Posted by jmg

I wholeheartedly disagree, but I understand where you are coming from, I used to think the same thing until I test drove an i3 an fell in love with it's idiosyncrasies. After driving it for over a month, it's the best commuter I've eer had. Of course, I still have a decent ICE for weekends.

I really don't get hybrids, why drive around with basically two separate power trains. Go full electric , or stay gas.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by MightyMouseTech

I really don't get hybrids, why drive around with basically two separate power trains. Go full electric , or stay gas.

Best of both worlds. Ev for the launch, which is all ev is good for really, and ice for the rest. Im not saying the traditional prius hybrid that uses the ev to increase mpg, im2 saying like a Laferrari that launches so well due to the front EV motors.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

which is all ev is good for really

I don't know where you are getting this information.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by jmg

I don't know where you are getting this information.

Bad range
Long refueling
Hurts the environment worse than ICE
Less economical
None yet with good handling
Acceleration sucks once at speed
Etc etc etc.
What's a positive? They come with a free iPad built into the dash?

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Bad range

Not for a commuter car it isn't.
I get 160 total miles from my i3 rex. 80 miles on all electric. This is more than sufficient for my commute.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Long refueling

It takes a minute to refill my REX.

But in all seriousness the time it takes to refuel doesn't matter much when my car is sitting parked while I'm at work or asleep. It's a small price to pay for all the other advantages an EV gives.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Hurts the environment worse than ICE

It takes 7.5kWh to refine a gallon of gas. That same 7.5kWh is the same potential coal burning source that the EV will take from the grid. My i3 gets 3.18m/kWh. My M3 gets 21.5 mpg.

i3: 0.31447kWh/mile
M3: 0.34884kWh/mile

So the my ICE M3 consumes more kWh per mile with JUST refinement costs as a factor. Add to that oil mining and transportation and the actual consumption of the fuel itself and you have a much higher cost per mile in energy and pollution.


As far as battery disposal, recycling is the answer:
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/23...-can-recycled/

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Less economical

My low average consumption is 3.18 m/kWh. My rate is $0.16729/kWh delivery and $0.07477/kWh Generation (tier 2 because of the size of my house and the AC). Even taking into account a 10% loss due to inefficiency (a generous assumption), that comes out to $0.09 a mile for my i3.

My F80 M3, in comparison at 21.5 mpg at $3.19/gal comes out to $0.15/mile.

Nail in the coffin: BMW provides 2 years of free charging, so even if I only change at work, cut that cost in HALF at least or make it $0.00/mile if I don't charge at home.

Winner: i3

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

None yet with good handling

It's a RWD 2800lb car with a low center of gravity and instant torque. It's more capable than most economy cars, and certainly better than trucks, vans and large SUVs.

But if you want to see what a street legal EV can do, just look at the Tesla S's 0.90g skidpad compared to your 2008 335i which only got a 0.89. So "none" with good handling? False.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Acceleration sucks once at speed

Compared to what? A blown V8? Compare to my Subaru Forester, the i3 is much better at speed. Again, this is a commuter car, not a sports car. It's more than capable for what it is intended for.

[solstice]

We are looking to replace one or both our cars within the next year and if this car was available now sub $80k, we would be signing papers. Porsche has said that the Mission E will cost as the Panamera so my guess is that this BMW will likely start in the low $70k in today's dollars. Hurry up BMW there is money on the table

[JorgenM]

solstice: remember this isn't the first new EV from BMW to hit the market, but it seems to be the next i model (2021)

3 series EV will for sure be available before this (2019/2020?), although maybe a bit boring and mainstream compared to this. X3 EV also (2020)

Still, at least one and a half year to wait... Hurry up BMW

[solstice]

Originally Posted by JorgenM

solstice: remember this isn't the first new EV from BMW to hit the market, but it seems to be the next i model (2021)

3 series EV will for sure be available before this (2019/2020?), although maybe a bit boring and mainstream compared to this. X3 EV also (2020)

Still, at least one and a half year to wait... Hurry up BMW

Yes, there is no way I want an EV in the shell of a non EV car. That is an absolute waste of the design opportunities with an EV. The i3 looks are prohibiting so this new one is the only one of interest from BMW. In 2021 there will likely be a Mission E in our drive way where this car could have been, too late for us but I don't think it will be too late for the car's design to remain fresh and become a huge hit. Still a lot of $$$ left on the table for each year until production starts.

[dzvero]

Looks much better than i3 and i8

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by jmg

Not for a commuter car it isn't.
I get 160 total miles from my i3 rex. 80 miles on all electric. This is more than sufficient for my commute.



It takes a minute to refill my REX.

But in all seriousness the time it takes to refuel doesn't matter much when my car is sitting parked while I'm at work or asleep. It's a small price to pay for all the other advantages an EV gives.



It takes 7.5kWh to refine a gallon of gas. That same 7.5kWh is the same potential coal burning source that the EV will take from the grid. My i3 gets 3.18m/kWh. My M3 gets 21.5 mpg.

i3: 0.31447kWh/mile
M3: 0.34884kWh/mile

So the my ICE M3 consumes more kWh per mile with JUST refinement costs as a factor. Add to that oil mining and transportation and the actual consumption of the fuel itself and you have a much higher cost per mile in energy and pollution.


As far as battery disposal, recycling is the answer:
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/07/23...-can-recycled/





My low average consumption is 3.18 m/kWh. My rate is $0.16729/kWh delivery and $0.07477/kWh Generation (tier 2 because of the size of my house and the AC). Even taking into account a 10% loss due to inefficiency (a generous assumption), that comes out to $0.09 a mile for my i3.

My F80 M3, in comparison at 21.5 mpg at $3.19/gal comes out to $0.15/mile.

Nail in the coffin: BMW provides 2 years of free charging, so even if I only change at work, cut that cost in HALF at least or make it $0.00/mile if I don't charge at home.

Winner: i3




It's a RWD 2800lb car with a low center of gravity and instant torque. It's more capable than most economy cars, and certainly better than trucks, vans and large SUVs.

But if you want to see what a street legal EV can do, just look at the Tesla S's 0.90g skidpad compared to your 2008 335i which only got a 0.89. So "none" with good handling? False.




Compared to what? A blown V8? Compare to my Subaru Forester, the i3 is much better at speed. Again, this is a commuter car, not a sports car. It's more than capable for what it is intended for.

1. 160 miles is no range. I drove 450 today alone.
2. So that means I would have had to park overnight twice.
3. Battery recycling would be an answer but it doesnt exist nor has it been shown economical.
4. An I3 is not an m3. It's more a corolla or camry. Total operating expenses suck, especially if you don't have my tax money to help buy your car.
5. So who wants to sit at a bmw dealer for 6 hours a day charging?
6. Even a lowly mustang GT can blow any EVsdoors off on the highway
7. From a tesla forum, obviously biased toward tesla:
Any body ever own a BMW and now drives a Tesla? I have a deposit on a 3 and have A BMW 328i which I love. I am wondering how the ride and handling compare' Also the value of the air suspension ? Thanks

RedShift | August 22, 2016
Me. I drove an E46 325i. Beautifully balanced, neutral and a champion handler.

First of all, this comparison is very unfair to the Tesla. A more apples to apples comparison is against a BMW 750i.

A RWD ( not D ) Tesla is neither neutral at the limits, nor a great handler at street speeds. It breaks traction suddenly and without much warning. To get the thrill out of it, you need to drive the Tesla faster. That's common sense as most heavier cars have limits that are accessible at higher speeds.

Regarding steering - 325i was natural and gave plenty of feedback. Tesla is duller.

Regarding the AWD Model D - it feels much more 'planted', but also less involving in the curves than a RWD setup.

Air Vs non air suspension: if you are a stuckler for handling, get the non air. It is very good setup and the ride vs handling trade off is right on the money.

Finally - most of the ills plaguing the Tesla start with its curb weight. At nearly 5000 lbs, it will never be considered sporty.

Better bet is to wait for the Model 3. If they an keep the curb weight below 3500 lbs, it should be a great handler and a replacement for a 3 series.

My 10 cents.

[jmg]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

1. 160 miles is no range. I drove 450 today alone. You are the exception, not the rule. The i3 isn't for you.
2. So that means I would have had to park overnight twice.You are the exception, not the rule. The i3 isn't for you.
3. Battery recycling would be an answer but it doesnt exist nor has it been shown economical. It does exist, not sure where you got this idea.
4. An I3 is not an m3. It's more a corolla or camry. Total operating expenses suck, especially if you don't have my tax money to help buy your car. Not my concern if an when I lose your "tax money". I'm taking advantage of the current situation. If those advantages disappear in the future, it does not effect me because I have already taken advantage of it. Additionally, the percentage of your tax dollars that actually go into my rebates are very very tiny. There's more going into a tank than 100 EV cars.
5. So who wants to sit at a bmw dealer for 6 hours a day charging? I've never done that, I've never had to, nor would I want to.
6. Even a lowly mustang GT can blow any EVsdoors off on the highway Who cares? A hammer can work a nail better than a ruler. Does it mean I throw away my ruler? I'm not racing, I'm commuting. However, an i3 will beat the GT to 30mph
7. From a tesla forum, obviously biased toward tesla:
Any body ever own a BMW and now drives a Tesla? I have a deposit on a 3 and have A BMW 328i which I love. I am wondering how the ride and handling compare' Also the value of the air suspension ? Thanks

RedShift | August 22, 2016
Me. I drove an E46 325i. Beautifully balanced, neutral and a champion handler.

First of all, this comparison is very unfair to the Tesla. A more apples to apples comparison is against a BMW 750i.

A RWD ( not D ) Tesla is neither neutral at the limits, nor a great handler at street speeds. It breaks traction suddenly and without much warning. To get the thrill out of it, you need to drive the Tesla faster. That's common sense as most heavier cars have limits that are accessible at higher speeds.

Regarding steering - 325i was natural and gave plenty of feedback. Tesla is duller.

Regarding the AWD Model D - it feels much more 'planted', but also less involving in the curves than a RWD setup.

Air Vs non air suspension: if you are a stuckler for handling, get the non air. It is very good setup and the ride vs handling trade off is right on the money.

Finally - most of the ills plaguing the Tesla start with its curb weight. At nearly 5000 lbs, it will never be considered sporty.

Better bet is to wait for the Model 3. If they an keep the curb weight below 3500 lbs, it should be a great handler and a replacement for a 3 series.

My 10 cents. The i3 isn't a sports car like the Tesla S is market as. The i3 weighs only 2800 lbs. Again, I'm going to use my tool analogy: Different tools for different jobs. If you want a sports car that happens to be an EV, look elsewhere. If you want a commuter car that still has lots of character and is still fun to drive, look into an i3

My responses in bold.

[Fundguy1]

So you don't take advantage of the dealer charging, it doesn't out accelerate a lowly mustang past a horse gallup, you don't mind taking advantage of my tax money or anyone else's, it won't handle like a 3, got it.

How about a situation like I just had, where hurricane Irma shut off the power for 6 days and I needed my car and had it to eat, work, etc? Sorry boss, can't work. I have an ev. Just gonna hang out at home with no lights, computer, or A.C. and eat cold spagettios. Probably wouldn't fly very well. Evacuate? Can't do it. Not enough range. Etc. Etc.