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      02-17-2018, 11:00 PM   #67
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I'm surprised to see subaru way down the list. Are they really that bad?
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      02-17-2018, 11:09 PM   #68
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If it isn't already obvious or hasn't been said, in this day and age, this study is nothing more than an infotainment user-friendliness rating. Or in other words, a mass population stupidity test to see which types of cars are owned by the dimmest users of technology.
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      02-18-2018, 01:59 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by TodmordenLad View Post
Not surprised to see Land Rover struggling at the bottom - seems like every other new LR I see on the road is on the back of a pick up truck!

Haha 😂it seems over the last 10 yrs (I’m sure more) I’ve never seen Land Rover move up, well, they do move up here and there one spot up from the bottom and then the next yr, they move back to the bottom😂😆

At least they are consistent haha

Awesome looking vehicles but from family exp they are just junk overall imo
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      02-18-2018, 06:39 AM   #70
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Originally Posted by CP911 View Post
If it isn't already obvious or hasn't been said, in this day and age, this study is nothing more than an infotainment user-friendliness rating. Or in other words, a mass population stupidity test to see which types of cars are owned by the dimmest users of technology.
I would have to agree.

Chevy more reliable than Subaru? No way!
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      02-18-2018, 11:07 AM   #71
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Wait until you sit in a Chrysler 300 lol. One of the worst modern interiors I've experienced. It's a panel gap party!
You mean the Ghetto Bentley isn't a good car
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      02-18-2018, 11:53 AM   #72
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Not surprised to see Land Rover struggling at the bottom - seems like every other new LR I see on the road is on the back of a pick up truck!
Ironic that Land Rover could aspire to Fiat's level of quality!

"Fix it again, Nigel."
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      02-18-2018, 07:01 PM   #73
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Car makers are only as good as their part suppliers and the specs they give for them to meet. I had an 89 535I...mechanicals were rock solid (except for the exhaust which rusted out at about 70K miles)...only issue I had in 10 years of ownership was a typical water pump failure....

The "soft parts" were another chapter or even a different book! Anything made of plastic or rubber seemed to crap out...and withing 5 years! Before anyone jumps on me for how I kept the car...it was garaged, detailed at least once a year and usually more often...by me, using quality supplies.
Here's the list: door panels delaminated around the arm rests (BMW gave me a courtesy warranty on parts...I paid $200 labor), the rubber shock joint in the drive shaft cracked, then the radiator plastic tanks started leaking, the headliner delaminated in the back seat area..guess the adhesive couldn't stand the sun roof wind force?
One big assembly issue..at about 30K miles the clutch got almost impossible to depress...on inspection the factory didn't grease the throw out sleeve!
Lucky for me I purchased my only extended warranty for a car...I worried about all the electrical and electronic items that could go south..never filed a claim on those types of parts. But it sure saved me a ton on the radiator repalcement, drive shaft joint etc...My 2009 328 seems to be holding together fine and no assembly defects...at least that I've caught..verdict still out on on new X1..time will tell.
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      02-18-2018, 10:41 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by ZCPM4 View Post
this dude has some pretty hilarious videos on YouTube about these JD Power dependability awards...

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC3k...yJBOOgsGH2elcg
I love this guy.. So true in all vids..
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      02-19-2018, 07:35 AM   #75
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Originally Posted by 2000Z3M View Post
he sold it off
to a Chinese company, that apparently denies that it bought it. And no one knows who funded the 1.1 billion to buy to it. Including the Chinese company. And JD Power borrowed $180 million more to fund the acquisition.

So look for Chinese car companies rising on JD Power's list.
https://jalopnik.com/no-one-seems-to...cha-1822623979
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      02-19-2018, 07:59 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by MalibuBimmer View Post
Two problems. First, JD Power has enough categories so that everyone can glom a few "awards." It's little more than a participation trophy.

Second, based on the way it conducts its dependability "awards," if a car is complicated and confuses the driver, such as with sophisticated controls, that car gets marked down. Thus, simpler cars, with less sophistication, will do better on its surveys.

Bottom line is JD Power is as reliable as the Marquis Who's Who books. You pay, you get in.
I agree. They recently sent me a survey and i was surprised at how many questions dwelled on the technology/user friendliness of the navigation system. It seems to me performance, handling or overall vehicle dependability didn't seem to matter much.
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      02-19-2018, 09:45 AM   #77
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Getting a Porsche is good....if you get a well built one and it's under warranty.
Exactly. I used to have a friend who worked in the service center of a Porsche dealership. He was always talking about what POS cars those Porsches were. He'd tell me how customers would bring their cars in for work, find out how much the repairs were, and just tell them, "keep the cars, I'm going across the street to the Lexus or BMW dealer." All sorts of stories I've heard from him.

BTW, why are there always Porsche trolls in the BMW forums? Just strange...like they have nothing better to do. I mean, if I loved Porsches so much, I'd be in the Porsche forums with people that shared the same interests. No offense to the Porsche lovers but IMO, Porsches are some of the ugliest cars ever built. I thought so when I first saw a 911 in the early '70s and I still think that...because NOTHING's CHANGED! They still look the same! To me they look like frogs with those bulging eyes/lights and short stubby bodies. I always see people say Macans are better looking than X4s. Not to me. The Macans and Cayennes are just glorified VW Tiguans and Touregs.
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      02-19-2018, 09:51 AM   #78
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Find me a mechanic that isn’t jaded about whatever brands they work for/with. Their job is to fix problems. I bet doctors feel all people are sick, too. Oy vey!

You would be in the minority to suggest 911s are ugly while you drive a boxy, uninspiring 3 series. Lol. I can say that because i own both.
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      02-19-2018, 10:06 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by F32Fleet View Post
+1. IMO the VDS is largely irrelevant because it only covers first 3 yrs of ownership. I really wish they stretched it out to 5 years.
That's where Consumer Reports frequency of repair data comes in. It may not tell the whole story, but statistically it points out problem areas.
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      02-19-2018, 10:17 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by THOR48 View Post
Getting a Porsche is good....if you get a well built one and it's under warranty.
Exactly. I used to have a friend who worked in the service center of a Porsche dealership. He was always talking about what POS cars those Porsches were. He'd tell me how customers would bring their cars in for work, find out how much the repairs were, and just tell them, "keep the cars, I'm going across the street to the Lexus or BMW dealer." All sorts of stories I've heard from him.

BTW, why are there always Porsche trolls in the BMW forums? Just strange...like they have nothing better to do. I mean, if I loved Porsches so much, I'd be in the Porsche forums with people that shared the same interests. No offense to the Porsche lovers but IMO, Porsches are some of the ugliest cars ever built. I thought so when I first saw a 911 in the early '70s and I still think that...because NOTHING's CHANGED! They still look the same! To me they look like frogs with those bulging eyes/lights and short stubby bodies. I always see people say Macans are better looking than X4s. Not to me. The Macans and Cayennes are just glorified VW Tiguans and Touregs.
This surprises me. Porsche is just behind Lexus for a reason. In general it seems they are quite a bit more reliable than BMW.

I guess to each his own but Porsches are much better looking than anything BMW produces right now. I don't think Macans and Cayennes are glorified Tiguans and Touregs. If that's true then X6 and X6M are glorified X4 and X4M. Same can be said about X1, X3, and X5. There is very little distinction between them: just bigger and more expensive.
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      02-19-2018, 11:24 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by THOR48 View Post
Getting a Porsche is good....if you get a well built one and it's under warranty.
Exactly. I used to have a friend who worked in the service center of a Porsche dealership. He was always talking about what POS cars those Porsches were. He'd tell me how customers would bring their cars in for work, find out how much the repairs were, and just tell them, "keep the cars, I'm going across the street to the Lexus or BMW dealer." All sorts of stories I've heard from him.

BTW, why are there always Porsche trolls in the BMW forums? Just strange...like they have nothing better to do. I mean, if I loved Porsches so much, I'd be in the Porsche forums with people that shared the same interests. No offense to the Porsche lovers but IMO, Porsches are some of the ugliest cars ever built. I thought so when I first saw a 911 in the early '70s and I still think that...because NOTHING's CHANGED! They still look the same! To me they look like frogs with those bulging eyes/lights and short stubby bodies. I always see people say Macans are better looking than X4s. Not to me. The Macans and Cayennes are just glorified VW Tiguans and Touregs.
This surprises me. Porsche is just behind Lexus for a reason. In general it seems they are quite a bit more reliable than BMW.

I guess to each his own but Porsches are much better looking than anything BMW produces right now. I don't think Macans and Cayennes are glorified Tiguans and Touregs. If that's true then X6 and X6M are glorified X4 and X4M. Same can be said about X1, X3, and X5. There is very little distinction between them: just bigger and more expensive.
I still think it's because a majority of them are low mileage cars. Also for whatever reason I feel 911/Boxster/Cayman owners are more likely to fill out the forms than those who own the sedan or SUV. It's just my own anecdotal experience with Porsche owners.
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      02-19-2018, 11:28 AM   #82
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Comical. Both of my bmws have open recalls awaiting dealer appointment and fix.
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      02-19-2018, 01:04 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
This surprises me. Porsche is just behind Lexus for a reason. In general it seems they are quite a bit more reliable than BMW.

I guess to each his own but Porsches are much better looking than anything BMW produces right now. I don't think Macans and Cayennes are glorified Tiguans and Touregs. If that's true then X6 and X6M are glorified X4 and X4M. Same can be said about X1, X3, and X5. There is very little distinction between them: just bigger and more expensive.
Your argument makes no sense. All the BMW Xs are just that...BMWs. (Maybe the X1 and the Mini Cooper Countryman share platforms...I'm not sure.) The Porsche SUVs are the same as the Audis which are the same as the VWs. 3 different companies with the same cars. Thank God, Lambos don't look like the other 3. If you don't see the physical similarities, then you're blind. Remember the Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera? Buick had the same car, the Century. And I believe Chevrolet and Pontiac had similar cars. Parts and platforms are shared. No originality. BORING! If that's what floats your boat, more power to ya.

Like I said in my original comments, "in my opinion," I don't find Porsches aesthetically pleasing. Someone above you mentioned that I'm in the minority. I don't think so. Otherwise we'd see a lot more Porsches on the road than BMWs. Your argument may be Porsches are more expensive. I'm pretty certain that many who buy the M's or the higher end BMWs can certainly afford to purchase Porsches if they wanted to. Not saying all Porsches are ugly. Porsche had 1 model that I halfway liked...the 928. I live in a wealthy county just outside of DC. There are way more BMWs (and Mercedes) on the road than Porsches. So if you think, I'm in the minority, I don't think so.

I don't get it...if you find BMWs so ugly, why are you even in the BMW forums? What's the point, if not to troll those of us who like the cars? Wouldn't it make more sense to go to the Porsche forums and spew your love of Porsches with someone who agrees with you? There you can talk about how great Porsches are and how ugly BMWs are. Are you that bored in your spare time because I can certainly help you find a local charity where you can volunteer and use your energy for positivity, instead of negativity in an obscure online BMW fan website.
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      02-19-2018, 01:17 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW F22 View Post
This surprises me. Porsche is just behind Lexus for a reason. In general it seems they are quite a bit more reliable than BMW.

I guess to each his own but Porsches are much better looking than anything BMW produces right now. I don't think Macans and Cayennes are glorified Tiguans and Touregs. If that's true then X6 and X6M are glorified X4 and X4M. Same can be said about X1, X3, and X5. There is very little distinction between them: just bigger and more expensive.
Your argument makes no sense. All the BMW Xs are just that...BMWs. (Maybe the X1 and the Mini Cooper Countryman share platforms...I'm not sure.) The Porsche SUVs are the same as the Audis which are the same as the VWs. 3 different companies with the same cars. Thank God, Lambos don't look like the other 3. If you don't see the physical similarities, then you're blind. Remember the Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera? Buick had the same car, the Century. And I believe Chevrolet and Pontiac had similar cars. Parts and platforms are shared. No originality. BORING! If that's what floats your boat, more power to ya.

Like I said in my original comments, "in my opinion," I don't find Porsches aesthetically pleasing. Someone above you mentioned that I'm in the minority. I don't think so. Otherwise we'd see a lot more Porsches on the road than BMWs. Your argument may be Porsches are more expensive. I'm pretty certain that many who buy the M's or the higher end BMWs can certainly afford to purchase Porsches if they wanted to. Not saying all Porsches are ugly. Porsche had 1 model that I halfway liked...the 928. I live in a wealthy county just outside of DC. There are way more BMWs (and Mercedes) on the road than Porsches. So if you think, I'm in the minority, I don't think so.

I don't get it...if you find BMWs so ugly, why are you even in the BMW forums? What's the point, if not to troll those of us who like the cars? Wouldn't it make more sense to go to the Porsche forums and spew your love of Porsches with someone who agrees with you? There you can talk about how great Porsches are and how ugly BMWs are. Are you that bored in your spare time because I can certainly help you find a local charity where you can volunteer and use your energy for positivity, instead of negativity in an obscure online BMW fan website.
Umm I'm on here because I have owned few BMW's before? And I've been here since almost the beginning?

Anyway, you're definitely in the minority thinking that BMW's look better than Porsches. Reasons why you don't see as many Porsches as BMWs on the road is because BMW produces way more cars and Porsches are simply more expensive and less practical. A Boxster S starts at roughly the same price as an M3 with much less cargo space and is only made for 2 people. I guarantee you that if Porsche was to make a sports sedan that is priced similar to the M3, people would jump ship. Of course Porsche would most likely not ever do that for many reasons.
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      02-19-2018, 02:15 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
Your argument makes no sense. All the BMW Xs are just that...BMWs. (Maybe the X1 and the Mini Cooper Countryman share platforms...I'm not sure.) The Porsche SUVs are the same as the Audis which are the same as the VWs. 3 different companies with the same cars. Thank God, Lambos don't look like the other 3. If you don't see the physical similarities, then you're blind. Remember the Oldsmobile Cutlass Ciera? Buick had the same car, the Century. And I believe Chevrolet and Pontiac had similar cars. Parts and platforms are shared. No originality. BORING! If that's what floats your boat, more power to ya.

Like I said in my original comments, "in my opinion," I don't find Porsches aesthetically pleasing. Someone above you mentioned that I'm in the minority. I don't think so. Otherwise we'd see a lot more Porsches on the road than BMWs. Your argument may be Porsches are more expensive. I'm pretty certain that many who buy the M's or the higher end BMWs can certainly afford to purchase Porsches if they wanted to. Not saying all Porsches are ugly. Porsche had 1 model that I halfway liked...the 928. I live in a wealthy county just outside of DC. There are way more BMWs (and Mercedes) on the road than Porsches. So if you think, I'm in the minority, I don't think so.

I don't get it...if you find BMWs so ugly, why are you even in the BMW forums? What's the point, if not to troll those of us who like the cars? Wouldn't it make more sense to go to the Porsche forums and spew your love of Porsches with someone who agrees with you? There you can talk about how great Porsches are and how ugly BMWs are. Are you that bored in your spare time because I can certainly help you find a local charity where you can volunteer and use your energy for positivity, instead of negativity in an obscure online BMW fan website.
I'm in Potomac too. I think Carrera's are gorgeous though.
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      02-20-2018, 04:53 AM   #86
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Every new car I've owned has developed one of two problems in the first year of ownership, which have been addressed under warranty. I haven't found BMW to be any better or any worse than Audi. MB or Volvo.
Judging by the experiences of a few of my neighbours, however, Jaguar Land Rover seem to offer pretty poor reliability. One of my mates has a new Jag which must have been back to the dealer at least half a dozen times in a year for recurring electrical faults. Needless to say, he's fallen out of love with his new car and is looking to change
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      02-20-2018, 12:24 PM   #87
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My pops has the new Versa. It's wonderful lol
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      02-21-2018, 05:38 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d05wtt View Post
Exactly. I used to have a friend who worked in the service center of a Porsche dealership. He was always talking about what POS cars those Porsches were. He'd tell me how customers would bring their cars in for work, find out how much the repairs were, and just tell them, "keep the cars, I'm going across the street to the Lexus or BMW dealer." All sorts of stories I've heard from him.

BTW, why are there always Porsche trolls in the BMW forums? Just strange...like they have nothing better to do. I mean, if I loved Porsches so much, I'd be in the Porsche forums with people that shared the same interests. No offense to the Porsche lovers but IMO, Porsches are some of the ugliest cars ever built. I thought so when I first saw a 911 in the early '70s and I still think that...because NOTHING's CHANGED! They still look the same! To me they look like frogs with those bulging eyes/lights and short stubby bodies. I always see people say Macans are better looking than X4s. Not to me. The Macans and Cayennes are just glorified VW Tiguans and Touregs.

Don’t see the Porsche people trolling, don’t know what you’re talking about. Many people own different vehicles.

To say Porsche’s are glorified VW’s is just ignorant. Platform sharing, yes, but drive them, entirely different vehicle. Don’t like it, don’t buy it. Funny how some argue and have to justify their choice of vehicle to make themselves feel better, while the true people of wealth have different cars to choose from each day of the week😂

Have you driven a gt4 cayman, or gt3, or even a turbo 911? Or any current Porsche’s in general? I’ve always loved BMW’s and have owned at one point, every generation of m3’s but BMW’s have become soft and I dislike the steering. It used to offer so much for a lot less , but imo, Porsche is the ultimate sports car with a manual transmission still. I also like their pdk as well.

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