New Ytest
Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-24-2017, 10:59 PM   #287
Esteban
Major General
Esteban's Avatar
United_States
42243
Rep
7,224
Posts

 
Drives: a slow car fast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
I think the DCT in my 335is is brilliant. It's the primary reason I chose it over a 335i in fact. First time I ever drove one I immediately "got it".

Is it perfect? Nope, it feels a bit unsure of itself in traffic. But after several months of driving it I feel I've more or less mastered getting around its quirks. And it more than makes up for those quirks when you've got open road in front of you. It is quite literally a kick in the pants. I love it. I don't miss the manual. I don't miss (?) an 8-speed econo-TC. I just enjoy it for what it is - a fantastic sport transmission that really shines above 3500 RPM. If you drive it where it likes to live, it will reward you. If you don't, welp, then you should have bought the econo-TC.
Yeah, I love mine as well. First time I drove it I knew I had to have it. Not perfect and yes it's quirky; part of it's charm imo. Agree that it takes some mastering.

Have heard quite a few unhappy 1er owners complain about their DCTs. Not all of them have issues, though. Wish they all enjoyed it and experienced it the way I have.
__________________
Appreciate 1
Jarrod72.50
      04-24-2017, 10:59 PM   #288
NoImDirtyDan
First Lieutenant
NoImDirtyDan's Avatar
United_States
298
Rep
363
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 BMW M3
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2018 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveW928 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
So production cost/profits/pricing needs to remain within its competition.
Fair point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
MOST people who buy these cars are not people like us who pay attention to the details of how a car drives, takes turns, shifts ect. We are such an insignificant percentage of people compared to everyone who owns a BMW.
Hmm, but then what's the point of BMW? Just get a Honda? Branding has to be a *bit* more than just a slogan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
It's unfortunate to us because we appreciate(d) what ///M's are and what they used to be. But we are irrelevant to the equation in terms of their profits and business model.

I will always have a soft spot for BMW regardless of where they go simply because of my past experiences. Nothing lasts forever!
In the end business is business.
I disagree here. I admit, I don't know car companies well, aside from being a long-time car enthusiast.

However, I do know Apple didn't get to be the most valuable company on the planet with a 'business is business' attitude. The 'new' Apple does seem to be taking an approach somewhat like you're describing here about BMW. If they don't course correct, they won't be the most valuable company for long. I'd predict the same for BMW if that's really their new 'business' strategy.

This seems to be a pretty close parallel with Apple and the creative/pro market debacle. Same argument there... that Apple's Pro users are a teeny-tiny percentage of the whole. Not really worth focusing on (or producing specific products for). But, that's bean-counter thinking. They are much more important to the brand than the pie-chart indicates.

My hunch is that it would be the same for BMW. Without the racing; without the enthusiasts, they become just another car company. And, they are too expensive to be just another car company. All those people buying them because of the badge, are vicariously buying into the image the enthusiasts built.
I see where you are coming from but putting aside enthusiasts for cars, even technology in general, It's a symbol of status to the average person. Why spend that much money on a car if it's just a car to you? A Honda is a better bang for your buck, yes (generally). But we live in a world where bigger is better and you buy what you can barley afford (again generalizing). Social status is extremely important in our society and people feel the need to always have latest and greatest. Apple and BMW have one major thing in common IMO and that's making small changes and selling it as a major upgrade. iPhone 6S to a 7. Pre LCI to an LCI. Every time I read about what's new in the new iPhone I shake my head and say Apple made another xxx Million on a new camera. Every time LCI models come out all I read is disappointment from our fellow enthusiasts because it's LED tails and a new production color. But there's always that "pressure" to have the next best thing on the market.

I live in LA so I am extremely aware of the social status thing. People out here (not everyone) find anything below them irrelevant and praise anything above them.

Yes, we as enthusiasts built and created what BMW is known for today. However, it's not about being fast anymore, something we all love. It's about being efficient, comfortable, and safe. While maintaining your social status of course.

It's unfortunate but as someone said earlier they are following the trends rather than creating them. Apple started a trend, however, other phones are now excelling and all Apple does is play catch up. BMW started a revolution with the E30 M3.

Now a days the technology is there, the power is there. 400HP cars are normal now. How fast does a car really need to be for everyday driving? You want a perfected DCT get a Porsche. (With all the MSD changes they aren't going to be that much more expensive) Why would BMW invest in something that's been done AND is slowly becoming obsolete.

That's why I say business is business because as a company they're going to do whatever it takes to maximize profits and sales. And with that they have to adapt to the needs and wants of everybody, not just a small percentage (us).

Please understand I am not targeting anyone specific, just my opinion based on my experiences.
Appreciate 1
c63er876.00
      04-24-2017, 11:02 PM   #289
zx10guy
Brigadier General
5139
Rep
3,235
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Like I said - now that you've explained it your comments make sense - all that was necessary was you confirming that you meant your comments as limited to your particular model/experience rather than the broad-sweeping statements you made before. People make broad sweeping generalizations all the time even though their own experience is limited to a very small subset of those generalizations. Therefore, the mere fact you mentioned that you have a 135i neither ruled in nor ruled out whether your original intention was global to all BMW DCT applications on the broad end of the spectrum - or alternatively- to just your own narrow experience (or the somewhat broader experience of 135i owners).

I'll say it again to be clear - not trying to pick a fight - but just trying to explain the source of the question of how broadly you intended to say how poor of a job BMW did on the DCT. However - your last few posts have now answered that question, so thanks for the clarification and better luck on your next transmission (sincerely - no sarcasm intended).
It's unfortunate I didn't get into the market for a 135i sooner. Had I been in the market sooner, I would have more choices with respect to available inventory to get a black 135i with a 6MT. And all my griping and whining about the DCT wouldn't even happen because I wouldn't be in this situation. I would have been able to continue my tradition of owning manual trans cars as my only automatic was my first car about 30 years ago.

Since my recent attempt to find a solution to this problem with flashing my car with a Dinan S2 tune, I'm starting to actually enjoy driving my car....as long as I don't turn the A/C on...sigh.

But thanks for getting why I'm coming off the way I am about BMW DCTs.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2017, 11:08 PM   #290
zx10guy
Brigadier General
5139
Rep
3,235
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 135i
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: DC

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban View Post
Yeah, I love mine as well. First time I drove it I knew I had to have it. Not perfect and yes it's quirky; part of it's charm imo. Agree that it takes some mastering.

Have heard quite a few unhappy 1er owners complain about their DCTs. Not all of them have issues, though. Wish they all enjoyed it and experienced it the way I have.
Yes, not all DCTs in the 135i's have problems. It's good you're providing a counter balance to my criticisms. But for me, it just makes me a bit more saltier that the product does work for other people. Why hasn't BMW spent time figuring out why we're the special ones and to come up with a fix? It just seems that they threw out one fix but then said, screw it if people are still having problems because we're only dealing with 4 model years of cars with this trans compared to the overall cars in total...not significant enough for us to care to keep applying resources to find and fix the problem.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lups View Post
We might not be in an agreement on Trump, but I'll be the first penis chaser here to say I'll rather take it up in the ass than to argue with you on this.
Appreciate 0
      04-24-2017, 11:18 PM   #291
AntDX316
Private First Class
AntDX316's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
150
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 750xi ///M Performance
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)

The real objective is what gives the best lap times. The bonus is having a superior method and it being more reliable. It should become a no-brainer. The amount of kick feel should be put in the same perspective as the louder the vehicle is the better but that is not true. You guys should evolve and not live in the past too much. Before Call of Duty made it into consoles, the devs were talking about removing dedicated servers which they did. Us PC people were complaining but look how popular and better it is that way but not really because I prefer to see a server list like ArmA so that might not be a good example.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 12:44 AM   #292
AntDX316
Private First Class
AntDX316's Avatar
United_States
32
Rep
150
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 750xi ///M Performance
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: New Jersey

iTrader: (0)



I think performance wise it's worse than the F12 successor but imo the 599 GTO is the best car character ever made.



There is like no sound here but it definitely out performs everything than the Ferraris?


Last edited by AntDX316; 04-25-2017 at 12:59 AM..
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 03:26 AM   #293
Aus335iguy
Colonel
Aus335iguy's Avatar
Australia
650
Rep
2,139
Posts

 
Drives: 2009 e92 335i MSport DCT
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Sydney Aus

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 BMW 335i  [10.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
Admittedly I didn't read the whole thread yet, but has it occurred to anybody that it might be tougher to "get it right" on the N54 platform due to the grunt it has down low vs. the S65? Heck, I have trouble getting the 6MT to shift smoothly from 1st to 2nd with the massive torque bomb trying to go off under my left foot. It's pretty unforgiving and I'm not sure a computer is going to do much better?
The DCT wasn't offered in the 1 series with the N54. Only the N55. The problems I'm complaining about are not due to torque modulation, smoothness in delivering the power. For most of us with this problem, it's a problem of nothing. When you give gas and expect the car to go, but in return the car either just creeps along or doesn't move at all, you'll understand why I'm so vocal about my disdain for how BMW didn't provide an acceptable product. Again, there's nothing scarier than merging into an opening in traffic, the car moves but creeps along, then you realize the gap you had from that oncoming car in the lane you're merging into is gone, and you're staring at a face full of car grill.

And I'm not even talking about the situation when you give gas, and the car just sits there and doesn't move at all for a solid 2 to 3 seconds or the situation when the idle is bouncing and during the downshift from 2 to 1 the trans engages with the 1st gear downshift causing the car to leap forward even though your foot is on the brakes.

I think if anyone ever experiences any of these situations, you'd be as salty as I am now.
My car was doing this until i flashed the IS software and got better again when I replaced my coils plugs and did a walnut blast. I then flashed mhd again and I'm fairly certain it was a combination of all these things that fixed the problem for me ... good luck!
__________________
When you doppelkaplung you doppel your fun.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 07:01 AM   #294
IS3andME
Major
482
Rep
1,189
Posts

 
Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveW928 View Post
Just watch the videos someone posted several pages back with the Corvette on the track, or the guy driving that tuned Cadillac. The problem is obvious. (As much as I complain about my Jetta's DSG, it's WAY better than those!)
If you are referring to the vids on page 8, that was a 2017 Camaro ZL1 with the General Motors- Ford co-developed 10 speed auto.

The tuned Cadillac ATS-V is using the GM 8L90 automatic, which is also used in the Corvette Z06 and regular Corvettes as well. Since this auto is used in trucks as well as sports cars, and the Cadillac, it could be a situation of programming the automatic. I wouldn't know. Again, both are automatics, not the American manuals that the BMW rep had mentioned.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 08:08 AM   #295
Powerslide
Colonel
United_States
1095
Rep
2,287
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 F80 ZCP
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Chicago Illinois USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powerslide View Post
Like I said - now that you've explained it your comments make sense - all that was necessary was you confirming that you meant your comments as limited to your particular model/experience rather than the broad-sweeping statements you made before. People make broad sweeping generalizations all the time even though their own experience is limited to a very small subset of those generalizations. Therefore, the mere fact you mentioned that you have a 135i neither ruled in nor ruled out whether your original intention was global to all BMW DCT applications on the broad end of the spectrum - or alternatively- to just your own narrow experience (or the somewhat broader experience of 135i owners).

I'll say it again to be clear - not trying to pick a fight - but just trying to explain the source of the question of how broadly you intended to say how poor of a job BMW did on the DCT. However - your last few posts have now answered that question, so thanks for the clarification and better luck on your next transmission (sincerely - no sarcasm intended).
It's unfortunate I didn't get into the market for a 135i sooner. Had I been in the market sooner, I would have more choices with respect to available inventory to get a black 135i with a 6MT. And all my griping and whining about the DCT wouldn't even happen because I wouldn't be in this situation. I would have been able to continue my tradition of owning manual trans cars as my only automatic was my first car about 30 years ago.

Since my recent attempt to find a solution to this problem with flashing my car with a Dinan S2 tune, I'm starting to actually enjoy driving my car....as long as I don't turn the A/C on...sigh.

But thanks for getting why I'm coming off the way I am about BMW DCTs.
No prob! Glad to hear the situation has at least gotten better - hopefully you'll find a solution as to the AC soon.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 08:43 AM   #296
rsyed07
Captain
rsyed07's Avatar
United_States
174
Rep
595
Posts

 
Drives: E46 330i, E92 13' 335is
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Central FL

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
I don't know but the topic is BMW's implementation. I didn't say another company's DCT implementation was better. Just said how BMW released a product to the public with the problems the DCT has is just shameful. I get others haven't experienced the problems I or others that have the problems I noted above. But for those that haven't experienced the problems, it can get downright dangerous. I've learned to work around the problems when they do crop up. But I won't let my wife drive my car because if you don't expect the problem nor have experienced it, it'll lead to a high probability of a crash.

There are plenty of us on this board that have complained about the problems and sought various remedies. One person posted they just bought a 135is and is in the middle of trying to get the dealer/BMW to buy back the car due to the throttle issues.

The DCT is great if you're in a track situation where speeds don't drop below 20 MPH. But most of these cars don't live 100% on the track. BMW should have done their homework and worked on the transmission's behavior outside of the track especially in stop and go traffic. You won't understand when you're creeping along in stop and go traffic, hit the gas, and get 2 to 3 seconds of dead pedal with no movement from the car. Or when there is an opening where you're trying to merge into traffic, you hit the gas, the car creeps into the opening and the spacing you had now becomes you staring a the grill of the car almost smashing into you. None of what I've described are exaggerations and those that have this problem will 100% backup what I've said. And I haven't even gone into the car jumping forward with my foot on the brake which only some people with the DCT problems have experienced. I have a friend who is a BMW tech at the dealership I go to get my car serviced. He told me he finally got a chance to experience and understand the complaints I had about the DCT when he was doing a CPO check out of a 135i with a DCT. And said it's totally unacceptable for a car to drive like that.

Due to when I bought my car and my desire to buy new, I was stuck with getting an auto/DCT. But since I got stuck with an auto, I would have preferred to have the previous ZF over this DCT any day.

Uhh that's odd. I have the same DCT gearbox in my 335is and it does not lurch in stop and go and there isn't really a delay when stepping on it. Sometimes maybe a fraction of a second delay if its in D mode. But I drive it 95% in M mode which is how its supposed to be driven. I think it just could be the previous owner of the car. DCTs aren't like regular autos and most likely the PO drove it like it was one thus ruining the experience for the next owner. It's the same debate as to why a lot of N54's consume oil and others don't. Breaking in the the car's engine/transmission properly matters when new.

Does DCT take time getting used to? Yes. Similar to a manual, throttle modulation from stops is key. Punch it and its like dumping the clutch, gradually increase the gas as if it was a manual and you're taking off from 1st gear takes care of a lot of the "quirkyness" people complain about in stop and go traffic situations.

Last edited by rsyed07; 04-25-2017 at 08:49 AM..
Appreciate 1
BMWM5NYC496.00
      04-25-2017, 09:04 AM   #297
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
195
Rep
1,317
Posts

 
Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
But the fact you all with M cars and DCT say the DCT has been a dream to experience/drive, tells me BMW knows how to properly code the software to behave properly at low speeds, low gear, and with the A/C on.
Like I said, I owned my 135i DCT from new, and for almost 6 years, and I live in London, so probably spent 70% of my ownership crawling around at sub 25mph speeds, and as far as I'm concerned there was no software issues with mine, as I said, I thought it was brilliant, at all speeds.

Only complaint I had was with the idiot Engineer that thought it would be a good idea to keep kick-down activated when in manual mode
But, as that was only an issue on a track, and not the road, it was a point of engineering principle with me more than anything.

While I understand your (and others) frustration, but the fact that this isn't an issue with every single car (and I know of no other DCT 135i owner in the UK that has experienced the issue you describe) means it isn't a design fault surely, other wise they'd all be the same.
Some cars just work, and some err, just don't, however, I would expect them to make one that doesn't, do so.
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 1
RACEM4TE374.00
      04-25-2017, 09:06 AM   #298
RACEM4TE
Banned
374
Rep
243
Posts

 
Drives: S63 AMG COUPÈ, Mclaren 675LT
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Abu Dhabi

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by JNoSol
Quote:
Originally Posted by YasM4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by JsL View Post
Which car company does DCT implementation better? Not trying to be a smart a**, just curious.
Porsche PDK is the best (from experience)
Will have to agree. PDK is simply perfect and what other DCT strive to be.
Ferrari DCT > PDK
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 09:22 AM   #299
GeeRam
Major
GeeRam's Avatar
United Kingdom
195
Rep
1,317
Posts

 
Drives: X5 40d SE
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Berkshire,UK

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by CSBM5 View Post
BMW has never even designed *any* DCT type transmission with an objective like Porsche's. Beancounters run the show at BMW and would never allow them to actually design it as in the TurboS above, M-car or not.
I don't think BMW have designed any of their DCT transmissions, only the software integration.
Aren't they all Getrag transmissions?
IIRC, the DCT unit in the E82 135i & E9* M3/335i was mechanically the same unit as the one Ferrari used in the California.
__________________
2017 X5 4.0dSE ~ Atlas Cedar:Ind.Amaro Brown Merino&Piano Blk, Sport Auto, DHP, Comfort seats, Cold weather pack, HK audio, Electric towbar, Sun protection glass.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 09:36 AM   #300
IS3andME
Major
482
Rep
1,189
Posts

 
Drives: Lexus IS300
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Maryland

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeeRam View Post
I don't think BMW have designed any of their DCT transmissions, only the software integration.
Aren't they all Getrag transmissions?
IIRC, the DCT unit in the E82 135i & E9* M3/335i was mechanically the same unit as the one Ferrari used in the California.
Here is the link for Getrag. Go to Dual Clutch transmissions, and also click on Models---you will see Ferrari and BMW models listed.
http://www.getrag.com/en/products/po...tion_type=7234
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 10:18 AM   #301
N & M
Captain
371
Rep
769
Posts

 
Drives: F90 M5
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Gulf

iTrader: (0)

Huff and puff...

We can huff and puff... but no one will care... in the end it is Auto for all. Personally I will miss the DCT, but feel there is no point in arguing as BMW will follow the logic of economies of scale and focus on the easier and more financialy viable solution.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 11:09 AM   #302
Jarrod
Second Lieutenant
United_States
73
Rep
236
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 E93 335is
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SE USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by zx10guy View Post
The problems I'm complaining about are not due to torque modulation, smoothness in delivering the power. For most of us with this problem, it's a problem of nothing. When you give gas and expect the car to go, but in return the car either just creeps along or doesn't move at all, you'll understand why I'm so vocal about my disdain for how BMW didn't provide an acceptable product.
First I'm hearing of it - I don't frequent the 1-series fora. Yes, I'd be pissed. That sounds dangerous.
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 12:07 PM   #303
Esteban
Major General
Esteban's Avatar
United_States
42243
Rep
7,224
Posts

 
Drives: a slow car fast
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrod View Post
First I'm hearing of it - I don't frequent the 1-series fora. Yes, I'd be pissed. That sounds dangerous.
Yeah, I feel for zx10guy and the other 1er owners who have these obvious safety issues. BMW shouldn't have dropped the ball like they did and left them out in the cold.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 06:50 PM   #304
SteveW928
Private
SteveW928's Avatar
Canada
16
Rep
85
Posts

 
Drives: '07 328xi Jet Black
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW 328xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
I see where you are coming from but putting aside enthusiasts for cars, even technology in general, It's a symbol of status to the average person.
Chicken and egg though... I think both Apple and BMW both hard-won their status symbol nature. And, I think they will both lose it if they don't focus on appropriate aspects of the brand.

Steve Jobs was about making user-experience job #1 and making excellent products... profits followed. For some stupid reason, it seems like a lot of business thinking has that bassackwards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
Social status is extremely important in our society and people feel the need to always have latest and greatest. Apple and BMW have one major thing in common IMO and that's making small changes and selling it as a major upgrade.
While I guess that's a sad commentary on the state of society... I think once you've achieved that status (by hard work) you generally just want to keep iterating a bit on perfection. New products are usually where the big innovation happens. That said, (and as much grief as I give Apple) a lot of the innovation is hidden on the chip-side. Not as aware of BMW in that regard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
It's unfortunate but as someone said earlier they are following the trends rather than creating them. Apple started a trend, however, other phones are now excelling and all Apple does is play catch up. BMW started a revolution with the E30 M3.
That's the sad thing though... while the phone was innovative (and Apple's big mainstream breakthrough product), that isn't really were much of the innovation happened. It was much earlier in terms of UX/UI innovation.
(Sorry, I was using this as a parallel... but maybe we've drifted too far off topic?)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
Now a days the technology is there, the power is there. 400HP cars are normal now. How fast does a car really need to be for everyday driving?
Fair point. It is pretty amazing about the increase in power of the average car. But, again, to go back to the parallel, that's the same thing Apple now thinks about 'pro' users. Their MacBook Pros or iMacs are now thought to be powerful enough for the typical 'pro' user.

But, just like here, there are a segment of 'pro' users who are in a different league. They don't mean 'pro' as in... use it to make a living, but 'pro' in a sense of what the machine is capable of. I'm guessing it's the same argument here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeroSix View Post
That's why I say business is business because as a company they're going to do whatever it takes to maximize profits and sales. And with that they have to adapt to the needs and wants of everybody, not just a small percentage (us).
Ahh, see, this is where I disagree again. Maximizing profits and sales *shouldn't* be the ultimate goal. Making the best products and best solving their client-base's wants/needs should be. Profits and sales follow.

And, that's the same argument going on about Apple right now. I just point out (as I did earlier) that Apple didn't get where they are by maximizing profits and sales.
__________________
Present: '07 BMW 328xi, '09 Honda CR-V
Past: '87 Dodge Omni, '89 Isuzu Impulse Turbo, '82 Porsche 928, early '80s Toyota Celica GT, 2x '80s Volvo 240 DL, late-'80s Honda Accord, late-'70s BMW 320, '89 BMW 325i, late '90s Ford Escort, '03 Honda Civic, '95 Mazda Miata 'M' edition, '10 VW Jetta TDI, '13 Toyota Tundra 5.7l
Appreciate 0
      04-25-2017, 08:00 PM   #305
heart_doctor
Lieutenant
320
Rep
579
Posts

 
Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: May 2011
Location: USA

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by N & M View Post
We can huff and puff... but no one will care... in the end it is Auto for all. Personally I will miss the DCT, but feel there is no point in arguing as BMW will follow the logic of economies of scale and focus on the easier and more financialy viable solution.
I disagree. If people stop buying their performance cars they will listen. I personally wouldn't buy a Performace car with a traditional automatic..... either DCT or 6MT for me. My next car may be a mustang or corvette .... don't see them changing anything anytime soon.
__________________
Appreciate 1
      04-25-2017, 11:30 PM   #306
pukicabuki
Lieutenant
176
Rep
528
Posts

 
Drives: something with 4 wheels
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oregon

iTrader: (0)

It's sad when you can see how blatantly ignorant an executive at this level is. Are the BMW engineers too lazy to do even a small amount of research? Or even shop around to see what suppliers can produce a strong, yet smooth, manual transmission?

The Getrag V160 used in the MkIV Supra in the 90s was light years ahead of any BMW manual transmission I've ever driven. It's precise, smooth and incredibly strong. So strong that nothing other than a strong clutch disc is required for 1000+hp and some serious abuse.

What they said doesn't exist, already does. They're either too lazy to go find it or being dishonest in their efforts to find the solution. My guess is the latter. It's cheaper and easy to standardize with a single transmission option, both from a cost perspective as well as an engineering one.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2017, 12:25 AM   #307
Vigilante375
Major
United_States
116
Rep
1,158
Posts

 
Drives: 2012 AW 6M 135i
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: WA

iTrader: (0)

The article states that a manual is at it's limits at 450 HP and ~440 ft lbs. Ummm...then how the hell are other cars able to push 600+ so easily?

Sounds fishy to me. Like they are wanting to cut down on cost's and keep that profit margin up even more.

They can spend millions of dollars on research for stupid things like how the battery system works in a BMW (where you have to program it to the car so it'll "last" longer) or a electronic sensor to tell you what level you oil is at (instead of putting in a dip stick). But they can't do the research for beefing up their DCT or manual transmission? BMW is about to be the ultimate driving machine to the regular driving machine.
Appreciate 0
      04-26-2017, 01:42 AM   #308
N & M
Captain
371
Rep
769
Posts

 
Drives: F90 M5
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Gulf

iTrader: (0)

Theoretically...

Quote:
Originally Posted by heart_doctor View Post
I disagree. If people stop buying their performance cars they will listen. I personally wouldn't buy a Performace car with a traditional automatic..... either DCT or 6MT for me. My next car may be a mustang or corvette .... don't see them changing anything anytime soon.
Yes, in theory that will work, however reality is most likely to follow BMW's view that most customers will not perceive a value or advantage to DCT or manuals and continue to buy cars equipped with auto transmissions.

There are many historical cases where the best invention goes extinct due to market forces not technical merit.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:38 AM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST