Still want an EV?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Several of the metro bus companies have filed for bankruptcy and many municipalities have had more that a few issues. I still think the numbers are still too small and the cost of maintenance in unknown as battery replacement costs are unknown and tire degradation is still a unknown so time will tell.

Austin's shift to electric buses is plagued by vehicle glitches and supplier bankruptcy
"The reliability of electric buses no matter the manufacturer is less than a diesel bus. I'm not going to tell you they operate as well as diesel bus," CapMetro chief operating officer Andrew Skabowski told KUT. "We're going to see some vehicles that are down a little bit longer than a diesel bus."
But other transit agencies single out Proterra's buses as being especially unreliable.
Attorneys representing Broward County, Florida say the first batch of Proterra's electric buses averaged 600 miles between failures. The second batch improved that average to 1,800 miles. But that was still far behind the county's aging fleet of diesel buses, which travel an average of 4,500 miles between failures.
Attorneys for the Santa Clara Valley Transportation Authority say the transit agency was forced to remove all 10 of its Proterra buses from service because they "continue to be plagued with problems." In one incident, a bus caught fire in a maintenance facility. Workers pushed the burning bus outside to prevent the building from catching fire. Some employees were treated for smoke inhalation.
[B]The city of Edmonton, Canada said in a filing that at times more than half [...]

Appreciate the response. I think the jury is still out on these. We’ll see. For EV buses to work they have to have lower maintenance costs given the upfront costs being much higher. Lots of places are adopting these fleets. I think we will have solid data in another year or so.

I don’t have much vested in these working out or not. I was just curious on some of the real world data and non-biased evaluations of this EV platform.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by RM7

Wow, what a perfectly meaningless test.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Wow, what a perfectly meaningless test.

Yup. Give me a ice pick and get ready for a EV Battery Barbecue.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Appreciate the response. I think the jury is still out on these.

Agree, no one has been in a metro area and said to themselves, I really want more diesel fumes. . But I have been around LP fuel buses and IMO they are clearly the cost effective choice. Hydrogen maybe in the future. I really doubt that EV buses are the solution.
1) they are expensive
2) they have down time for charging requiring more buses to built and purchased to keep the schedule.
3) the cost of replacement batteries will be astronomical.
4) the cost of tires will be higher due to the weight of huge battery packs
5) the environmental impact of manufacturing and recycling the batteries will be massive and the pollution from tire wear will be significant.

But when you can spend tax payer money on a problem you created then by all means spend away.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Agree, no one has been in a metro area and said to themselves, I really want more diesel fumes. . But I have been around LP fuel buses and IMO they are clearly the cost effective choice. Hydrogen maybe in the future. I really doubt that EV buses are the solution.
1) they are expensive
2) they have down time for charging requiring more buses to built and purchased to keep the schedule.
3) the cost of replacement batteries will be astronomical.
4) the cost of tires will be higher due to the weight of huge battery packs
5) the environmental impact of manufacturing and recycling the batteries will be massive and the pollution from tire wear will be significant.

But when you can spend tax payer money on a problem you created then by all means spend away.

China has 99% of the worlds 350K plus EV buses. Couldn't believe that but true. Wonder how they are working? Given all their ghost cities it doesn't necessarily mean it makes sense.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

China has 99% of the worlds 350K plus EV buses. Couldn't believe that but true. Wonder how they are working?

They burn very well

Seriously the country that gave us toxic drywall, poison dog food and melamine dosed baby formula should never be allowed to ship anything more complicated than chop sticks.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

They burn very well

Seriously the country that gave us toxic drywall, poison dog food and melamine dosed baby formula should never be allowed to ship anything more complicated than chop sticks.

China started in 2013-2014 on EV bus rollout. It is still going strong with over 420K buses. I don't think they would stick with buses for this long if they didn't work at some level.

One of the biggest benefits for them has been reducing local air pollution. Which has notoriously been terrible in large Chinese cities.

Interesting article:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...gan-with-buses

[tahoeacr]

San Francisco has 89 years of electric bus maintenance records. But nobody really wants to know. Trolley buses so no numbers on battery life replacement. But all the rest of the required maintenance. Some of the new trolleys do have batteries so they can unhook to get around construction or get to other lines. But you know, people want to save the planet but they don't want to see electric lines overhead.

[M5Rick]

Veto the Vito

[Condorll]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Veto the Vito

The moral of that story is don't park anywhere near an EV !!!! Parking lots should designate an area exclusively for EV parking.

[Weather Man]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Veto the Vito

So, with 15% of light duty vehicles being EV in the UK, they lost one parking garage with 1,500 vehicles and come damn near 2 more times that we know of. With EV fire reporting being squashed in the UK, you wonder how many other close calls they had that prompted the authorities to squash reporting to prevent an EV backlash worse than it already is. And, the close calls are coming fast and furious.

[Schn3ll]

I posted this at Rennlist, mods of the 718EV section removed it. EV folks are a touchy bunch, and I owned 2 at one time, these people are a cult.


Let's imagine we live in a world where all cars were EVs, and then a new invention comes along called the "Internal Combustion Engine!"

Think how well they would sell:
- A vehicle nearly half the weight
- half the price
- almost quarter the damage done to the road
- can be refueled in 1/20th of the time
- has a range up to 4 times the distance in all weather conditions
- does not rely on environmentally damaging use of non-renewable rare earth elements to power it
- uses far less steel and other materials
- no looming $30k+ battery replacement cost
- real engine noise and exciting powerband
- can be driven on the track or in the mountains all day long
- analog driving experience with manual transmission options
- hand-built artisan craftsmanship for unique powertrains, like a swiss watch vs. mass produced apple watches

Just think how excited people would be for such technology. Imagine how long the wait lists would be for real Porsche GT products!

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

So, with 15% of light duty vehicles being EV in the UK, they lost one parking garage with 1,500 vehicles and come damn near 2 more times that we know of. With EV fire reporting being squashed in the UK, you wonder how many other close calls they had that prompted the authorities to squash reporting to prevent an EV backlash worse than it already is. And, the close calls are coming fast and furious.

I belong to a motorists action group who keep me informed and of course there's our gas car friendly journo Geoff to wipe away the anti gas car reporter freaks, maybe brown paper envelopes being banded about from other EV friendly Bozo's ...

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

I posted this at Rennlist, mods of the 718EV section removed it. EV folks are a touchy bunch, and I owned 2 at one time, these people are a cult.


Let's imagine we live in a world where all cars were EVs, and then a new invention comes along called the "Internal Combustion Engine!"

Think how well they would sell:
- A vehicle nearly half the weight
- half the price
- almost quarter the damage done to the road
- can be refueled in 1/20th of the time
- has a range up to 4 times the distance in all weather conditions
- does not rely on environmentally damaging use of non-renewable rare earth elements to power it
- uses far less steel and other materials
- no looming $30k+ battery replacement cost
- real engine noise and exciting powerband
- can be driven on the track or in the mountains all day long
- analog driving experience with manual transmission options
- hand-built artisan craftsmanship for unique powertrains, like a swiss watch vs. mass produced apple watches

Just think how excited people would be for such technology. Imagine how long the wait lists would be for real Porsche GT products!

Interesting one

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Condorll

The moral of that story is don't park anywhere near an EV !!!! Parking lots should designate an area exclusively for EV parking.

It's happening in Australia and sure enough soon should be considered in GB,US and Canada.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

I posted this at Rennlist, mods of the 718EV section removed it. EV folks are a touchy bunch, and I owned 2 at one time, these people are a cult.


Let's imagine we live in a world where all cars were EVs, and then a new invention comes along called the "Internal Combustion Engine!"

Think how well they would sell:
- A vehicle nearly half the weight
- half the price
- almost quarter the damage done to the road
- can be refueled in 1/20th of the time
- has a range up to 4 times the distance in all weather conditions
- does not rely on environmentally damaging use of non-renewable rare earth elements to power it
- uses far less steel and other materials
- no looming $30k+ battery replacement cost
- real engine noise and exciting powerband
- can be driven on the track or in the mountains all day long
- analog driving experience with manual transmission options
- hand-built artisan craftsmanship for unique powertrains, like a swiss watch vs. mass produced apple watches

Just think how excited people would be for such technology. Imagine how long the wait lists would be for real Porsche GT products!

Facebook post?

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Condorll

The moral of that story is don't park anywhere near an EV !!!! Parking lots should designate an area exclusively for EV parking.

Funny you should post that. I had the M4CS out a for a run last year and I pulled into a parking lot and a Tesla parked right next to me and I Instinctively moved my car to a different space.

Tech Tip: Don't park next to beat up rusted pick up trucks or EV's

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Schn3ll

Let's imagine we live in a world where all cars were EVs

. Now I have to clean the coffee off my key board.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

China started in 2013-2014 on EV bus rollout. It is still going strong with over 420K buses.
One of the biggest benefits for them has been reducing local air pollution. Which has notoriously been terrible in large Chinese cities.
China is permitting on average two coal power plants per week. If China was not a importer of LPG would they be building EV bus's?
Remember China outlawed electric scooters from their cities because they kept catching on fire.

Interesting article:
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/2...gan-with-buses

The BBC article written by By Xiaoying You? Really? Sorry got to call that out as "yellow journalism". (Pun Intended)

"Stocks in China and Hong Kong sold off a massive $4.8 trillion in market capitalization since 2021, which according to HSBC, is more than the value of the Indian stock market."
Maybe not the people to take business advice from?

I do appreciate your pluckiness.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The BBC article written by By Xiaoying You? Really? Sorry got to call that out as "yellow journalism". (Pun Intended)

"Stocks in China and Hong Kong sold off a massive $4.8 trillion in market capitalization since 2021, which according to HSBC, is more than the value of the Indian stock market."
Maybe not the people to take business advice from?

I do appreciate your pluckiness.

I think it is helpful to look at the Chinese experience on EV buses since they have been using them the longest and in an absolutely massive deployment.

[gonzo]

The majority of the buses locations...
The particulates levels in those locations...

Maybe it's just me, but what the heck is the point?
Like shooting an elephant with a cock Daisy.

[M5Rick]

''EV's shouldn't be shoved down our throats''

2035? but for the wrong reasons, our own Bozo hasn't a clue of what he's talking about, no wonder he's heading for a no confidence blow.